Witch-King

Evenstar373 · Nov 30, 2003

This may be a VEARY stupid thing to ask ...but If nazguls are imortal how could the witch King be Killed?

Gandalf White · Nov 30, 2003

Why would you think Nazguls are immortal?

Of course, they were incredibly hard to kill, taking something extraordinary to get rid of them. I seem to remember there was a prophecy regarding the WK, stating that a mortal man could not hinder him. Fortunately, it was a mortal lady that confronted him.

HLGStrider · Dec 1, 2003

Well, he was somewhat immortal. . .

Eowyn would not have won had it not been for Merry. Merry's blade, made with Elven skill to destroy wraiths, unmade him, making him mortal. As soon as he was mortal, he could be killed.

I think there are a few other things that have the power to destroy him, so he isn't strictly immortal. ..but he is pretty dang close.

Gandalf White · Dec 1, 2003

Originally posted by HLGStrider
Merry's blade, made with Elven skill to destroy wraiths, unmade him, making him mortal. As soon as he was mortal, he could be killed.

Oooh! Could you please give me quotes or something to back this up? It would be very helpful to me in an argument I'm having!

Maegnas · Dec 1, 2003

I thought they where?????

I thought that the BLACK RIDERS where immortle. Well if they are than how did Merry and Eowyn kill the Witch King?

Maegnas · Dec 1, 2003

How could a Elvish blade kill a BLACK RIDER???

Inderjit S · Dec 1, 2003

The blade wasn't made by Elves but by a Dúnedain of Arnor. It is stated several times. (Tom Bombadil, Denethor, Mouth of Sauron, narrarator.)

Celebthôl · Dec 1, 2003

Hahaha

I was the work of Westernese i beileve

and it did something to the WK sinues! Man that debate went of for years. . .

HLGStrider · Dec 1, 2003

I can't remember where it is exactly, the quote, GW, and I don't have time to look right now. I 'm thinking it is perhaps something explained somewhere by Gandalf. . .something about his immortal sinews being unknit. . .does that bring anything to anyone's mind?

Thorin · Dec 1, 2003

Merry's blade was elven and even then it killed the body, not the essence of the Nazgul. Like Sauron when the ring was destroyed, the Nazgul would roam without form and be vanquished from taking form again.

Considering that the ring's power was vanquished, there would be no hope of the Nazgul taking shape again because they got their power through Sauron.

Lantarion · Dec 1, 2003

*Is at a loss for words*
Um, yeah, what he said.. Whoo you're too fast for me Thorin!

Almost identical threads merged.

Gandalf White · Dec 2, 2003

Wait! So Eowyn had nothing to do with it?

(Man, I forgot all about that debate.)

Beleg · Dec 2, 2003

Merry's blade was Mannish, Thorin as told by Inderjit.

Inderjit S · Dec 2, 2003

For each of the hobbits he chose a dagger, long, leaf-shaped, and keen, of marvellous workmanship, damasked with serpent-forms in red and gold. They gleamed as he drew them from their black sheaths, wrought of some strange metal, light and strong, and set with many fiery stones. Whether by some virtue in these sheaths or because of the spell that lay on the mound, the blades seemed untouched by time, unrusted, sharp, glittering in the sun.

Fog on the Barrow Downs

Pippin lifted it and presented the hilt to him. ‘Whence came this?’ said Denethor. ‘Many, many years lie on it. Surely this is a blade wrought by our own kindred in the North in the deep past?

Mina Tirith (Denethor speaking to Pippin.)

Merry’s sword had stabbed him from behind, shearing through the black mantle, and passing up beneath the hauberk had pierced the sinew behind his mighty knee.

Battle of the Pellenor Fields

Then he looked for his sword that he had let fall; for even as he struck his blow his arm was numbed, and now he could only use his left hand. And behold! there lay his weapon, but the blade was smoking like a dry branch that has been thrust in a fire; and as he watched it, it writhed and withered and was consumed.

Battle of the Pellenor Fields

Dwarf-coat, elf-cloak, blade of the downfallen West

The Black Gate Opens (Mouth of Sauron to the captains, the 'blade of the downfallen West' was Sam's barrow-blade.

HLGStrider · Dec 3, 2003

I probably was imagining that quote about unmaking his immortal sinews again. . .like I was imagining that part about Aragorn traveling to the Sea of Rhun in the appendix. . .

I make up things when I have a memory gap sort of subconsciously, it seems.

Maegnas · Dec 3, 2003

Don't fell bad I do the same thing.

Gandalf White · Dec 3, 2003

Originally posted by HLGStrider
I probably was imagining that quote about unmaking his immortal sinews again. . .

Nope, it's not imagination, except for the adjective 'immortal.' I think the actual word was 'mighty,' but I can't for the life of me remember where it is.

Eriol · Dec 3, 2003

No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will

The Battle of the Pelennor Fields.

And about Aragorn in Rhûn:

I have crossed many mountains and many rivers, and trodden many plains, even into the far countries of Rhûn and Harad where the stars are strange.

The Council of Elrond -- when Aragorn is telling Boromir how his journey from Gondor to Imladris was no big deal for a guy like Strider

.

Gandalf White · Dec 4, 2003

*slaps head*

Doh!

I don't deserve to be posting here, after this!

Anyway, what does it mean, "knit his unseen sinews to his will?" A stab behind the knee is by no means a mortal blow.

And Aragorn tells the hobbits that the Wraiths cannot see as men do, yet he looks at Eowyn with his eyes. Probably easily explained, but I'll ask anyway.

Arvedui · Dec 4, 2003

Originally posted by Gandalf White
Anyway, what does it mean, "knit his unseen sinews to his will?" A stab behind the knee is by no means a mortal blow.

I think this has been debated before.....

But here's my two cents:
Merry's stab made the Witch-king killable. Without Merry at the scene, Eowyn would not have been able to strike the lethal blow, and it would not have mattered very much if she was not 'a man'.

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