HelplessModAddi
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- Jun 24, 2002
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I always thought that if Elves left Arda, they would simply become mortal like humans. So Elves go expand into brave new worlds, seventy years later they die, find themselves back on Arda and go do it again.
Originally posted by HelplessModAddi
If you pay close attention, the Dagor Dagorath and the Second Music are never identified with each other. It stands to reason that first the world will end for Elves, and then, much later, the world will end for Men. It does fit with the theme of separate fates for the kindreds.
Will the second music occur immediately after, or just generally after Dagor Dagorath? I don't see how Turin's actions would trigger or signify anything about a music. If you can find any passage relating the two events the way you claim, please notify me.Dagor Dagorath and the second music are and should be associated, because the second music will occur after Morgoth is slain by Turin.
True, but they must have different roles, else why have two races? You could make just one race with a lot of variety if they were all going to end up doing the same thing.
where they would be immortal, wise, basically Elven,
Beleg: When compiling Tolkien's work, Tolkien the younger chose the most up-to-date versions of all the stories, which was difficult because they were so many-layered. But Tolkien's ideas toward the end of his life, which were the most recent versions of everything, were collected by Christopher Tolkien and published in the Sil.
Well, for the second music to occur, the Valar would have to win the Last Battle.
"Never since have the Ainur made any music like to this music, though it has been said that a greater still shall be made before Iluvatar by the choirs of the Ainur and the children of Iluvatar after the end of days. Then the themes of Iluvatar shall be played aright, and take Being in the moment of their utterance, for all shall then understand fully his intent in their part, and each shall know the comprehension of each, and Iluvatar shall give to their thoughts the secret fire, being well pleased."
“…all shall then understand fully his intent in their part, and each shall know the comprehension of each…”
…it came into the heart of Melkor to interweave matters of his own imagining that were not in accord with the theme of Iluvatar; for he sought therein to increase the power and glory of the part assigned to himself. To Melkor among the Ainur had been given the greatest gifts of power and knowledge, and he had a share in all the gifts of his brethren.
...But being alone he had begun to conceive thoughts of his own unlike those of his brethren.
And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.
And thou, Melkor, wilt discover all the secret thoughts of thy mind, and wilt perceive that they are but a part of the whole and tributary to its glory.
Beleg said:HOME#5
So what do you think will happen to Men on the "doom's day"?
What is the ultimate fate of men?
Thorondor_ said:Both Myths Transformed (Notes on motives in the Silmarillion, iii) and The Later Quenta Silmarillion (Of the severance of marriage), promote an ambivalent view on what Arda Healed will be: a finite work which will be enjoyed outside time - or - a place in Ea, sometime in the future, when the marring shall be removed (by the direct intervention of Eru, as Finrod holds in the Atrabeth).
According to the second source (later quenta), most elves believe that the Fate of Men will not be concerned with Arda at all.
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