(Almost) first impression of the 🧝elves of a fandom newbie

[BranwyndLoamkind]

Hey! As the title says, I'm new to the fandom. I've only read "The Hobbit" and the first half of "The Fellowship of the Ring", and I sincerely hope that my thoughts won't offend those who knows more than me. I'm just sharing my point of view as I read and will be happy to discuss someone else's perspective on the situation. I'd like to discuss a line I've been thinking about lately: elves irritate me a little with their arrogance and snobbery. I've already noticed some sort of idealization of them, which other races are guilty of. In fact, elves are more distant and cold than I thought, and if this was done intentionally by Tolkien, like a hook that you get caught on, and then you face reality like Sam, it's a good move, even if it leaves a slightly bitter aftertaste. What do you think about it? Maybe someone had the same first impression and changed mind after a while? Despite my emotions, I will definitely give the elves a chance, subjecting their behavior to analysis.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Welcome to our forum, @BranwyndlLoamkind !

The Elves strike readers in different ways, and yours is as valid as others. Their characterization in The Hobbit differs from that in LOTR, of course, as it's a children's story, but even in the latter, Elves differ among themselves; those mentioned briefly in "The Shadow of the Past" are distant, because "they were leaving Middle-earth and were no longer concerned with its troubles". On the other hand, Gildor and his party are friendly enough, and Glorfindel is especially concerned about Frodo. As your reading continues, I think you'll find a variety of attitudes.

After you finish LOTR, you may want to go on to The Silmarillion.There, you'll encounter some really arrogant Elves! 😄

By the way: if you'd like to introduce yourself "formally", and maybe say something about your special interests, don't forget our New Members forum:

https://thetolkien.forum/forums/new-members.58/

 

[Deimos]

Hey! As the title says, I'm new to the fandom. I've only read "The Hobbit" and the first half of "The Fellowship of the Ring", and I sincerely hope that my thoughts won't offend those who knows more than me. I'm just sharing my point of view as I read and will be happy to discuss someone else's perspective on the situation. I'd like to discuss a line I've been thinking about lately: elves irritate me a little with their arrogance and snobbery. I've already noticed some sort of idealization of them, which other races are guilty of. In fact, elves are more distant and cold than I thought, and if this was done intentionally by Tolkien, like a hook that you get caught on, and then you face reality like Sam, it's a good move, even if it leaves a slightly bitter aftertaste. What do you think about it? Maybe someone had the same first impression and changed mind after a while? Despite my emotions, I will definitely give the elves a chance, subjecting their behavior to analysis.

There are elves, and there are elves. And then there are things that look like elves but ain't.

 

[Fingon_Findekáno]

After you finish LOTR, you may want to go on to The Silmarillion.There, you'll encounter some really arrogant Elves! 😄

Only some of them are Really Arrogant Elves! Namely Thingol. And Fëanor at times. 🙂

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

How about Turgon, or Eol, or Maeglin, or . . .

 

[Fingon_Findekáno]

How about Turgon, or Eol, or Maeglin, or . . .

Ëol, definitely. Maeglin fell into it more as the years went on. Turgon had his moments, but he wasn’t always arrogant.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

No, not always. But when a Vala tells you to do something . . .

 

[d4rk3lf]

Thingol was also sort of arrogant.
And that guy that teased Turin... let me Google it's name ... ah yeah.... Saeros...
If you think about it... Galadriel is also sort of stubborn and prideful, because refused to return to Valinor after first age, and wanted her own Kingdom.
-----------
@BranwyndLoamkind
--
Welcome mate.
Sorry for the slight spoilers above, but I am sure you will forget about them if you come to the point where you are re-reading Silmarillion for 100th time.

I really like your initial observation of elves, and it kind of reflects mine, although, you are much smarter then me, and you got them much sooner.
Here is how it was for me:
Hobbit - What are these folks so happy? They kind of look foolish
LOTR - Hmmm... Elves definitely have some mystery in them.. it's worth investigating
Silmarillion - Oh wow. Some of the elves are crazy stubborn and Prideful. I LOVE THEM!

 

[Eljorahir]

"The Hobbit" and the first half of "The Fellowship of the Ring"

elves irritate me a little with their arrogance and snobbery

Assuming we're talking about the descriptions in the books...I'm not sure I'd call any elf in these sections of the stories "arrogant and snobbish". The adjectives I'd use:

Elrond in Rivendell: hospitable
Tra-la-la-lally elves in Rivendell: carefree and joyful
The Elven King of Mirkwood: unjust

Gildor in the East Farthing: friendly, hospitable, generous, helpful
Glorfindel: brave, wise, helpful

The only one I've given a negative adjective is the Elven King, unjust in his imprisonment of the dwarves. But, I don't think this is arrogance or snobbishness.

I threw this response together kind of quickly. Am I leaving out any elf encounters that may border on arrogant and snobbish?

 

[Starbrow]

I think Gildor could come across as arrogant when he first met the hobbits in the East Farthing. His actions and words could be taken as happy and friendly or as looking down on them. For example, he laughs when he first sees Frodo by the side of the road. When Frodo asks to travel with them, they respond, "But we have no need of other company, and hobbits are so dull," and laughed again. This could be taken as friendly teasing, like with how the elves greeted the dwarves when they came to Rivendell in The Hobbit. But, it could also be taken as belittling them.

 

[d4rk3lf]

like with how the elves greeted the dwarves when they came to Rivendell in The Hobbit.

If dwarves behaved like that, I think elves treated them much better then they deserved.

 

[Deimos]

That PJ, after mangling The Hobbit, was allowed to continue living, was also treated much better than he deserved.

 

[BranwyndLoamkind]

Hey! I'm here again, so here we go👀

After you finish LOTR, you may want to go on to The Silmarillion.There, you'll encounter some really arrogant Elves! 😄

Okay, that probably fills me with genuine interest. As far as I know, the writing style of The Silmarillion is similar to a collection of myths, but other than that I really don't know anything. In any case, this book has been lying on the shelf for a long time and waiting for its moment

don't forget our New Members forum

THX✨

I'm reading spoilers diagonally for now, heh-heh

Hobbit - What are these folks so happy? They kind of look foolish

Everything you say just shows my thoughts at some point, but mine was something like "What? I don't trust this, too foolish and... unusual?"
Maybe I could have formed that opinion because of that in some way. I guess I just need to get used to them, as I've said

This could be taken as friendly teasing, like with how the elves greeted the dwarves when they came to Rivendell in The Hobbit. But, it could also be taken as belittling them

Yeah, maybe those moments meant something to my judgments too (and it could be silly), but I think it's right to try to look at it from that perspective. That's exactly what I'm trying to do!

That PJ, after torturing The Hobbit, was allowed to continue living, was also treated much better than he deserved

I sincerely felt sorry for the Rivendell elves at this point. I even joked that The Elven King was simply returning the favor (literally and metaphorically). After this they definitely deserved to get imprisoned

Thank you very much for the answers, it was very interesting to read and find out the thoughts of others!❤️

 

[Ent]

I might add, @BranwyndLoamkind, as you progress in your reading and studying Tolkien, you'll begin to see he wrote his peoples - and his people within his peoples - to represent certain very real things in the world we live in. Everything he wrote is 'layered' in many levels.

Thus you will find an incredible opening out of 'tales within tales' in his tales. Some of it not so easy to see, unless one ponders long and well.

Many here can take you very deeply into the layers of Tolkien.
And just as people and peoples are varied within, among, and between themselves, so the fans are varied within, among and between them.

@Deimos says it well, borrowing from another entity you may or may not have run into within Tolkien yet:
"There are elves, and there are elves. And then there are things that look like elves but ain't."

Tolkien's work is deeper than the Mines of Moria.