Anyone else troubled by the 🧙Blue Wizards?

[Aldanil]

wishing no warring with Walter

Yet I feel that I must quibble with the hue of his choosing in response to Rangerdave.
Rather than Black, weren't Jake and Elwood the Blues Brother Wizards?


(And isn't ham-handed overemphasis the sincerest form of flattery?)

 

[Walter]

Re: wishing no warring with Walter

Originally posted by Aldanil
Yet I feel that I must quibble with the hue of his choosing in response to Rangerdave.
Rather than Black, weren't Jake and Elwood the Blues Brother Wizards?



(And isn't ham-handed overemphasis the sincerest form of flattery?)

LOL, that's really funny, I pondered to edit this entry earlier today when I - occasionally - reread it.

My first thought was, since the colours of the Istari refer to their clothing when they arrived in M-e, that Jake and Elwood should be named the "Black Wizards" (since they were always clad in black), but when I reread the statement today it didn't "look and feel" proper anymore.

Maybe we should call them the "Black Blues Brothers Wizards"?


Oh and, welcome back, Aldanil! Good to see you again, your knowledge and wisdom has been missed here...

 

[Maeglin]

I would like to think that both of the Blue Istari succeeded in their tasks and then sailed away back to the west, and sent over Radagast and Saruman and Gandalf. But for some reason(and this makes me sad) I don't think that happened.
Something gives me the feeling, I'm not sure what or why, that one of them stayed in the east and did whatever they were supposed to do, but the other one maybe was ensnared by Sauron, and maybe the mouth of Sauron is actually one of the Blue Istari, its something that I would like to believe to be false, but I don't know. just my two cents, what does everyone else think?

 

[FarahSlax]

Didn't Tolkien state outright somewhere that Gandalf was the only one of the Five who stayed true to his mission?

 

[Edhel-dûr]

Yes, it´s said in the letter 156.

Greatings.

 

[Cian]

Originally posted by Flame_of_Anor
This has nothing to do with anything that has already been posted on this thread, but I was wondering if Merlin could have been one of the Blue Wizards. what do you think?

No Merlin was Radagast, cf the name Aiwendil "Friend of birds", though aiwë denotes a "small bird" ~ and a merlin being a type of bird, a _small_ falcon.

The conclusion is oblivious

 

[Flame of Anor]

Ok, thanks for that clerification Cian. It all makes sense now.

-Flame

 

[Cian]

And you know I'm having a bit of fun here (just in case )

 

[Flame of Anor]

Don't worry, so am I.

-Flame

 

[TheFool]

copied from a 'new' thread

originally posted by Fool

"Radagast The Fool!" laughed Saruman....

I know I've seen loads of other discussions on this site wrt this topic, but I've just thought of something:

why does Saruman say "....and you have the rods of the Five Wizards" .. etc when obviously the Blue Wizards are a total no-show in the relevant history of Middle-Earth?

sorry I haven't read the whole thread yet but any comments are appreciated

 

[Walter]

Drats, they have closed the other thread with the poll. I hate it when they do that, now I'll never know how many wizards there were...

Originally posted by TheFool
"Radagast The Fool!" laughed Saruman....

I know I've seen loads of other discussions on this site wrt this topic, but I've just thought of something:

why does Saruman say "....and you have the rods of the Five Wizards" .. etc when obviously the Blue Wizards are a total no-show in the relevant history of Middle-Earth?

Originally posted by TheFool
sorry I haven't read the whole thread yet but any comments are appreciated

Well it depends on what you see as the "...relevant history of Middle-earth". Anyway, one of Tolkien's later notes concerning Saruman mentioning Five Wizards says:The other two are only known to (have) exist(ed) [sic] by Saruman, Gandalf and Radagast, and Saruman in his wrath was letting out a piece of private information

For an overview about the Istari or the Blue Wizards, you could check out these pages: The Istari, What are the names of the Blue Wizards

 

[TheFool]

Cheers, Walter. I meant 'relevant history' wrt LOTR, but from your JRRT quote it seems it was a slip of the (forked) tongue.

I'm reading those pages

 

[Walter]

Originally posted by TheFool
Cheers, Walter. I meant 'relevant history' wrt LOTR, but from your JRRT quote it seems it was a slip of the (forked) tongue.

I'm reading those pages

I often wondered myself why Tolkien had Saruman mention "Five Wizards" and I still don't know for sure whether it was purposely or just a "slip of the pen" on his side...

 

[Maeglin]

I found something else about the crazy Blue Istari.

from Appendix B, The Tale of Years, The Third Age

When maybe a thousand years had passed, and hte first shadow had fallen on Greenwood the Great, the Istari of Wizards appeared in Middle-earth. It was afterwards said that they came out of the Far West and were messengers sent to contest the will of Sauron, and to unite all those who had the will to resist him; but they were forbidden to match his power with power, or to seek to dominate elves or men by force of fear.
They came therefore in the shape of Men, though they were never young and aged slowly, and they had many powers of mind and hand. They revealed their true names to few, but used such names as were given to them. The two highest of this order (of whom it is said there are five) were called by the Eldar Curunir, The Man of Skill, and Mithrandir, the Grey Pilgrim.

well this doesn't really do much help, but we can't be sure there were five(though there probably were) because it only says of whom it is said there are five. This is probably stupid and I am quite sure its wrong to think that there weren't five, because I think there were, but this is just a little bit more info I guess.

 

[Noldor_returned]

I think that they got lost in a hedge maze. Hey, that gives me an idea...

 

[Erestor Arcamen]

Oh God, what is it this time NR? lol

lemme guess, the search for the two blue Istari in Saurons hedge maze of hororrs? lol

 

[valaroma]

Here's a bit of history. That pointed hat worn by the istari is exactly similar to the ones worn by ancient nomadic conquerors in central asia who called themselves "saka". Historians called them "Scythians" and they were the masters of the Caucasus region around 700 b.c. They spoke a proto indo european dialect which is the precursor to most european languages. Some historians consider these people as "Aryans" or the ancestor of modern europeans.

This pointed hat was much later borrowed by the mongols whom by the 12th century conquers central asia and part of europe. Genghiz Khan often wear this hat when he go into battle.

 

[Ingwë]

The Middle-earths has great part in the works of J R R Tolkien. It is the most important part of Arda. It is said that the Blue Wizards passed to the East. Is the East related to the Middle-earth. Hm, yeah, kinda, but is it related to the Great Years and the War of the Ring, the events of the end of the First age? The answer is "no". So why are you troubled by the Blue Wizards? They don't play part in the events in Middle earth, so Tolkien decided the aren't very important characters and he didn't developed them. Tolkien first developed his most important characters - Earendil, as an example (and as far as I remember ). However, I think that if Tolkien had lived a few more years he would has done a lot of work.

 

[Noldor_returned]

So why are you troubled by the Blue Wizards? They don't play part in the events in Middle earth, so Tolkien decided the aren't very important characters and he didn't developed them.

There's one problem I have. In the amount of times Christopher Tolkien looked over JRR's notes, surely there would have been some scribbling of "not used" or something along those lines. But there isn't as far as we know, so possibly Tolkien was going to write something else concerning them.

As to that idea I had, I started a thread called Blue Wizard Theories. It's basically any theories (crazy or normal) that you have which explain the absense of the two.

 

[Narsil]

I always thought that had Tolkien finished The New Shadow (his unfinished tale of the 4th Age), the Blue Wizards could've been players in this tale. Either they would've been the source of the evil that was hinted at in this tale or perhaps been saviors and/or guides for good in much the way Gandalf was in the 3rd Age.

I've always thought that the Blue Istari went to the far East and became in involved in evil plots that had something to do with Harad and their involvement with Sauron. They either turned evil themselves and were akin to "Black Numenoreans" or perhaps tried to stop the evil alliance but failed.

IMO their intentions were good but the outcome was bad and they met the same end as Saruman and Radagast in that they failed in their mission.