Babylon 5 discussion

[Ugluk]

Hi all

I wonder how many people would find it useful and/or interesting to discuss some of the themes that appeared the the 1990's TC series Babylon 5?

Several lines of discussion suggest themselves (example episodes in italics):

• The tension between expectations of faith/principles and objective/technocratic decision making (e.g. Believers)
• What price immortality? (Deathwalker)
• The tension between order and chaos (the shadow story line from late season 1 though to mid season 4)
• At what point does it become necessary for sworn officers to disobey authority? (end season 1 to end season 4). This may be too political for this group!
• The significance of hope.
• The nature of the person in a word of synthetic and engineered personalities (Divided Loyalties, Passing Through Gethsemane, Spider in the web).

Plus some more general aspects of the story:

• Character development, especially Sinclair, Sheridan and Delenn, J'Kar and Londo, Vir, Lennier, Franklin, Lyta and Ivanova.
• The role of myth and archetypes
• How plots are interleaved, especially the themes of world building, chaos and order, authority and morality, and what happens after the wars.

Anyone up to it?

I will also add:

• As in LOTR, hope without guarantees

 

[Ugluk]

There are a few differences between the pilot and the series, in the tone, visuals and the atmosphere, and some cast changes and the makeup choices. But by and large the series does follow on from the pilot quite well, but is generally much, much better. Which version did you see, the original as music by The Producer, JMS, was quite unhappy with the director (Richard Compton) and composer (Stewart Copeland) of the pilot and later released a slightly edited version with a different score by Christopher Franke, did did the music for the rest of the series. Which version did you see? It is the same story though, with many details only picked up much further down the track. As J'Kar says in a later episode, nobody is quite what they seem, finding out their nture natures and how they develop takes the next 5 years in the show's time.

So, onto the 1st episode, Midnight on the firing line? It's be good to discus it episode by episode.

 

[Ugluk]

Christopher Franke. I'm a fan of Tangerine Dream so it was great to hear him in action.
Never heard of The Producer so I gave them a listen. Maybe they were too upbeat for the darker material of Babylon 5.

That is the one closest to the Producer and writer's vision.
Franke is a brilliant composer and serves the B5 story very well.

😲 22 Episodes. I can't promise I'll last that long ... well, see how it goes.

It's actually 110 episodes (hope this does not scare you off!), the whole program is one long story. I hope you do persist, it's like LOTR on film (there are some Tolkien references, look out for them) without being in any way an adaption, you have to be in it for the long haul. Season 1 just takes you up to the old forest. Like LOTR is is worth revisiting, I have watched the whole thing five times in three years, currently on the sixth.

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knew I had a Babylon 5 episode somewhere around the place and found the The Lost Tales.
Only watched the first Tale, very shoestring budget, reminded me a lot of Exorcist III at first, then settled down to some interesting religious questions about 'God' and 'Faith' and their place in the infinite universe.

B5 was the 1st TV series to rely heavily on CGI. Yes, it was low budget but what they did with that was extraordinary.

Lost tales came later and, along with some later follow on attempts, was very inferior. They can be ignored.

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Definitely the best part of episode 1, Garibaldi watching Daffy Dodgers in the 24 1/2 century and eating popcorn with Delenn. I thought he would be watching Daffy Dodgers in the 24 1/2 century and eating popcorn with Talia?!? I must have missed something.

He tried Talia, but she wasn't interested,

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It was fun to see this screen display when the Soul Hunter was arriving through the Gate. The word 'Unknown' was mentioned in the Daffy Duck cartoon as where to find Planet X.

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This is interesting. When the Soul Hunter was sucking the soul out of Delenn he used a solder sucker as shown in this screenshot. I have one just like it in my toolbox.
Maybe just a play on words for a bit of fun!

I'm not sure I can continue watching any more episodes as I'm developing a crush on Delenn. Which is pretty weird I think. Especially imagining making out with her. The mind boggles!!!
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Delenn is by one of the most interesting characters in the story. Her development is amazing, from beginning through to the end. She... changes.... It's OK to have a crush on her (I do), Mira Furlan was a very good actress and a remarkable person.

 

[Ugluk]

Yes I noticed. One season at a time I think might be possible.

See how you go.

Lieutenant Ivanova did look amazing when she let her hair down in the casino scene, but there is something really cute about Delenn. Like miscegenation it is fascinating to think of the far future when humans will eventually mix with alien races. The evolution of our species might very well depend on alien DNA to ensure its survival.

Ivanova is another great character.

Cross species relationships, especially ones with viable offspring are very rare in B5, this isn't Star trek, after all. It's either a kink, or achieved only at great personal cost. You will see both. JMS understands biology much better than the writers of Star trek.

Onwards and upwards!

 

[Ugluk]

B5/1-E3 💫 "Born to the Purple"


I was hoping for a continuation of the desolderer prop, but there was only Londos' remark about feeling like his 'brains had been sucked out of his ear'. The mind-probe did look a little like a desoldering pump, but only in a very abstract way. I see now the trend of B5 is more about character development rather than continuing props and story lines.

Character development is a key to the story. but so is the story line. S1 has extensive world building, but there are eggs in almost every episode that will hatch later. Some into quail, some into dragons.

That being said, it was interesting to see how Ivanova was bending the rules to talk to her father. Maybe hinting at a communication trait she might have inherited from her late mother.
I imagine this being kept hidden as something that could prove very useful in Security.

Hold onto those thoughts, they may work out differently to what you think.

 

[Ugluk]

Great speech wasn't it?

"Ask ten different scientists about the environment, population control, genetics and you'll get ten different answers, but there's one thing every scientist on the planet agrees on. Whether it happens in a hundred years or a thousand years or a million years, eventually our Sun will grow cold and go out. When that happens, it won't just take us. It'll take Marilyn Monroe and Lao-Tzu and Einstein and Morobuto and Buddy Holly and Aristophenes .. and all of this .. all of this was for nothing unless we go to the stars."

Otherwise a fairly average chapter (bit like say "Three is company" in LOTR). But like it, pointers to the future.

Things to remember: the implications of organic technology and the wars a thousand years ago that led to the extinction of the Ikarrans. The dangers of a too rigid definitions of purity (be it biological or ideological). Also 1st mention of Interplanetary Expeditions. We will see more of these.

And of course, some great lines from the characters: "The last time I gave an interview, they told me to relax and tell them what I really felt. Ten minutes after the broadcast I got transferred to an outpost so far off the star maps you couldn't find it with a hunting dog and a Ouija board." (Sinclair);

"What's the worst that could happen? They fire you, ship you off to the Rim, and I get promoted to commander. I don't see a problem here." (Garibaldi);

And of course, from the always sharp tongued Ivanova: "If you need something, I'll be over there getting drunk with the other aliens."

Next up for you is "Parliament of Dreams", both character building and world expanding.

 

[Ugluk]

Also the one from Sinclair:
"You forgot the first rule of the fanatic: when you become obsessed with the enemy, you become the enemy!"
It reminded me of the one from George Smiley, in Tinker Tailor:
[on Karla] "And that's how I know he can be beaten. Because he's a fanatic. And the fanatic is always concealing a secret doubt."

Indeed!

I'm sure the episode also mentioned the possibility of engineering organ spacescraft. A fascinating concept in science fiction, like Lexx and Farscape.

You will see more about organic technology.....

 

[Ugluk]

Ciderwell: will you watch more or have you seen enough?