⚔️battle of 5 or 6 armys?

[DGoeij]

I found this in the book:

Bilbo has been found an brought bakc to the encampment and hears about how the battle came to an end.
The Hobbit, chapter The Return Journey,
(typing errors on my account)
The Eagles had long had suspicion of the goblins'mustering; from their watchfulness the movements in the mountains could not be alltogether hid. So they had gathered in great numbers, under the great Eagle of the MIsty Mountains; and at length smelling battle from afar they had come speeding down the gale in the nick of time. They it was who dislodged the goblins from the mountains-slopes, casting them over the percipices, or driving them down shrieking and bewildered among their foes. It was not for long before they had freed the Lonely Mountain, and elves and men on either side of the valley could come at last to the help of the battle below.
(end quote)

The Eagles did fight, and in great numbers. It was not enough even then and it took the coming of Beorn to turn the tide for the dwarves, elves and men.

 

[Durin of moria]

yeah they were knocking them goblins off the mountain and if i do recall a large force of the goblins went over the mountain in two forces of the goblins
so the number of birds must have been big enough to call an army

maybe it is called the battle of 5 armys
because it sounds better than the
battle of 6 oh wait maybe 7 hold on
i got it

 

[Grond]

I'll post this again as we have the author's own words to settle this argument. Here is what the author said in "The Hobbit".

from the chapter The Clouds Burst,
"So began a battle that none had expected; and it was called the Battle of Five Armies, and it was very terrible. Upon one side were the Goblins and the wild Wolves, and upon the other were Elves and Men and Dwarves.

Game, set and match to J. R. R. Tolkien.

 

[Durin of moria]

no bacause there was more than 5 armys

 

[DGoeij]

Well, professor Tolkien off course merely described/translated the events in ME from the books by Bilbo.
Besides, when event get a name, it's not always accurate. In the Netherlands whe have the history of the Eighty Years War. Actually, it was 'only' 68 years of warfare and a 12 year truce. But if you wish to find any reference about this war, the search term is Eighty Years War. Likewise, the Battle of the Five armies started of as a battle between five armies, and was remebered by that name.

 

[Dûndorer]

ummmm, im from the U.S.A. and have no idea what your talking about. because you said that the battle began with 5 armys, didnt it start with 4, im not sure tho.

 

[Rohansangel]

I don't see what being from the USA has to do with it ... But anyway it was a battle of 5 armies since the Wargs and the Goblins were "one": that is, the wargs were only steeds.

~The Angel of Rohan

 

[Dûndorer]

when i said i lived in the USA i ment that i didnt know what DGoeij was saying about the netherlands. sorry.

 

[DGoeij]

Well according to the ones who where there (or professor Tolkien) the battle began with:
Elves, Men and Dwarves on one side and Goblins and Wargs on the other side. Counting five armies. The author/characters in the book considered it a battle of five armies. Maybe incorrectly, but they did.

See the quote given by Grond:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
from the chapter The Clouds Burst,
"So began a battle that none had expected; and it was called the Battle of Five Armies, and it was very terrible. Upon one side were the Goblins and the wild Wolves, and upon the other were Elves and Men and Dwarves.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The example from Dutch history was a mere example. A war not lasting eighty years for real, but nevertheless named that way afterwards: The Eighty Years War.

Now, if we think they shouldn't have called the Wargs an army, and the eagles should have been called an amry, is off course free to discuss. But the event was named the Battle of the Five Armies.

 

[Dûndorer]

oh, OK i get it now. i see what you mean.

 

[DGoeij]

Great. I'm sorry if I was not clear at first. Writing down what you mean is hard enough, and doing it in English doesn't make it easier.
Hey, I like your quote.

 

[LadyGaladriel]

Hey If JRRT says its 5 then its 5 . y should we argue?!Lol

 

[Dûndorer]

thank you.

although i dont know if you are talking about my old one or my knew one.

 

[DGoeij]

I guess the old one, because I remember another.

 

[Bilbo Baggins57]

Should battle of 5 armies be called battle of 6 armies?

No, i don't think it should be called the Battle of 6 Armies. The eagles weren't really fighting. They came to help the men/elves/dwarves army. I don't agree w/ whoever said that the Wargs didn't count as an army. They were allied w/ the orcs in order 2 get revenge 4 when Gandalf set the pine cones on fire & threw them @ the Wargs so Thorin & CO. could get away safely. But really, all armies on each side should be counted seperately. Although the orcs were riding on the Wargs, the wolves still fought in the army.

 

[Dûndorer]

i just wanted to say that i made this thread when i started posting here, and i am happy about other peoples views on the subject. im also happy for everyone treating like a friend, even though when i first came here i didnt know any of you. (i gotta get some of my friends i hang out with to post here). now back to the subject...

i think i agree with you Bilbo Baggins57.and i think eagles came because they hate orcs. not to help anyone else, just themselves.

 

[Theoden]

I think that it should be called six armies because the eagles played a big part in the whole outcome of the War of the Ring.

-me

 

[Earnil]

The Wargs and teh Goblins were really two armies. The Goblins themselves actually rode on wolves while there was also an army of Wargs with the Goblin army. So with the Elves, Dwarves, and Men the Wargs and Goblins made up the 5 armies.

I really don't think you could include the Eagles. I doubt there would have only been very many of them. Tolkien didn't exactly enter them into his books in just any place.

The Eagles are a dangerous 'machine'. I have used them sparingly, and that is the absolute limit of their credibility or usefulness.
- Letter 210, The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien

With the Eagles being incredibly powerful creatures I doubt there would have been very many of them in the assault on the Goblin and Warg armies at the Lonely Mountain. I think at most there would have been 10 of the Great Eagles to deal with the Warg and Goblin armies.

Do you think a small number of very large Eagles could be called an army?

 

[Legolas_lover12]

i don't really think that you could call bilbo an "army". not even a "one man army". he was knocked out and invisible the whole battle. the most he would've done was maybe trip a few orcs.
i think i would count beorn as a one man army.
and it said the eagles came in "great numbers". i don't really know what it meant by "great numbers". but, to me, that means at least 50. wouldn't that be considered a small army? so, i count the eagles as an army.
i count the wargs as an army because they can attack on their own.
and i think it's obvious that the men, dwarves, elves, and orcs are each an army.
so i would call it the battle of the 7 armies.

 

[redline2200]

the eagles weren't really an army. There was a lot of them but I don't think that they could be considered an army .