⚔️Battle of the Behemoths: Fingolfin vs. Turin as Warriors

Turin_Turambar said:

It is not written anywhere that Turin got help from Tulkas and Earendil. In fact, Tulkas cannot defeat Melkor. After Turin defeated Tulkas, Turin may have fought a Melkor who defeated Tulkas.

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Erestor Arcamen said:

Sorry, was it written anywhere that Turin fought/defeated Tulkas? That seems unlikely

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Elassar said:

Why would Turin and tulkas fight eaachother in the first place? And tulkas already beat melkor before dagor dagorath

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Turin_Turambar said:

ah sorry just a minor typo. actually; After Melkor defeats Tulkas, Turin fights with Melkor who defeated Tulkas.

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Thus spake Mandos in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgement in Valinor, and the rumour of his words was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of Night out of the Timeless Void; and destroy the Sun and Moon. But Eärendil shall descend upon him as a white and searing flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Eönwë, and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, returning from the Doom of Men at the ending of the world; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the children of Húrin and all Men be avenged.

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Radaghast said:

And what's the source for Melkor defeating Tulkas?

Here's the quote from The War of the Jewels:

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Radaghast said:

That's not a source, that's just your inference. You're the one who's speculating.

In the text, Tulkas, Ëonwe and Túrin all fight Melkor at once, with Túrin dealing the killing blow. Nothing is said about Tulkas being defeated.

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Turin_Turambar said:

If you've noticed, the prophecy says that tulkas will wrestle with melkor first, but melkor will eventually be killed by Turin. The prophecy does not say that tulkas, turin and eönwe will attack melkor together. It is written only on the right and left of the tulkas who is who. And it's not necessary to view it as a 3v1 fight. If it were as you say, Turin and eönwe would have helped Tulkas while Tulkas was wrestling, or they would have fought together.

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In that day Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Eönwë, and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, returning from the Doom of Men at the ending of the world; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the children of Húrin and all Men be avenged.

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Radaghast said:

So, only your inferences have merit? You're making quite a leap saying Melkor defeats Tulkas while I merely suggest Tulkas, Ëonwe and Túrin all fought Melkor together, which the text does seem to suggest. Why else would the text make a point of them standing stand side by side?

Here's the quote again.



In your view they just stand around and each takes turns against Melkor (kind of like that scene in the finale of the deeply disappointing Avengers: Endgame).

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