Did 🐲dragons participate in battles north of 🌋Mordor during the war?

[Turin_Turambar]

Dragons are included in the battles in the north in bfme 2, so is this canon? What book or source does it say that dragons were involved in the wars in the north?

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

I would think not, but I don't honestly know completely. I will have to research this more. However there is no option for 'unsure', so I will make no more comment until I thoroughly relook these particular things.

 

[Gothmog]

I very much doubt it since Gandalf went to such lengths to ensure that Smaug was not overly interested in battle at the time of the War of the Ring.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

That is true. I don't know quite when or how all the dragons were defeated or lost, but it seems evident that they were not around in the final battle or charge at the Black Gate, and I would suspect that most all of the creatures of Middle-Earth that were, would come and go forth and fight. And yet, that being said, no mention of Dwarves or Elves, save Legolas, fighting are mentioned if I remember rightly, so I suppose dragons may too have lingered silently in the lands.

 

[Radaghast]

There are dragons in the Withered Heath in the north. What they're doing there is anyone's guess.

 

[Gothmog]

There are dragons in the Withered Heath in the north. What they're doing there is anyone's guess.

Probably keeping their heads down and avoiding Dwarven axes

 

[Turin_Turambar]

Probably keeping their heads down and avoiding Dwarven axes

In bfme 2, you fight various dragons in the north and a dragon who is the lord of dragons. I don't know if it's written in the books. I just wondered if it's possible for dragons to be in wars in the north.

 

[Alcuin]

Just for clarification of the question and poll posed by @Turin_Turambar, “bfme 2” is a reference to The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II, which Wikipedia describes as

The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II is a 2006 real-time strategy video game developed and published by Electronic Arts.​

Game designers have pretty much free rein in adding monsters to their play because monster encounters are one of the principal reasons people enjoy that genre of video games. In this case as well, since the reference is to The Lord of the Rings only, the implication is that this is licensed through Middle-earth Enterprises, formerly Tolkien Enterprises, a division of Saul Zantz Company. The film and merchandise rights for The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit were sold by Tolkien in 1969 to pay his taxes. (Taxes in the UK at that time were assessed by Inland Revenue: it sent you a bill, and you had to pay what it demanded.) These rights are therefore not under the control of the family. United Artists originally purchased the rights for £100,000 and a 7.5% royalty interest in adaptations. Saul Zaentz Company obtained the rights from United Artists in 1976.

As an interesting aside the Amazon Tolkien series presumably is under the control of the family, through its agency, The Tolkien Estate. This brings to mind a quotation of Tolkien by his late biographer, Humphrey Carpenter, who cites Tolkien without further reference (p 226),

I cannot help feeling there is a lot to be said for “the grosser forms of literary success” as a sneering critic recently called it.​

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Just for clarification of the question and poll posed by @Turin_Turambar, “bfme 2” is a reference to The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II,

I had no idea what it was, so thanks for that, Alcuin.

I suppose that, strictly speaking, there's no lore-reason dragons couldn't be present; aside from Tolkien's statement to Naomi Mitchison, there's Gandalf speaking to Frodo in Fellowship about dragons, and his talk about "Dragon-fire" in Eriador in Appendix A, although there, he appears to be talking about Smaug. So there are at least a few small chinks you might smuggle a dragon through.

Though you'd think Gandalf would have mentioned them! Or Tolkien, in Appendix B.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

I had little idea of what this was also-- yet this was my (slightly assumed) conclusion.

Thanks for the clarity.

 

[Copia]

If dragon's were alive in the Third age, after the defeat of Smaug, I am sure it would be in the text. I presume there are no more dragons aftr Smaug.
The game BFME 2 is not cannon, even though it has rights to the books.

 

[Elthir]

Tolkien noted the following in a letter to Naomi Mitchison (1954) [as referred to above by S-Es]

"Some stray answers. Dragons. They had not stopped; since they were active in far later times, close to our own. Have I said anything to suggest the final ending of dragons? If so it should be altered. The only passage I can think of is Vol. I p. 70 : ‘there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the old fire is hot enough’. But that implies, I think, that there are still dragons, if not of full primeval stature."

JRRT

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

That's exactly what I was too lazy to type out.

(See? Despite your protests otherwise, I'm lazier than thou 😃)

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

I'm lazier than thou

Nay, I assure thee well that thou hast done much. At least Vairë would say so, for her tapestries depict much of the History of the World.

 

[Copia]

Tolkien noted the following in a letter to Naomi Mitchison (1954) [as referred to above by S-Es]

"Some stray answers. Dragons. They had not stopped; since they were active in far later times, close to our own. Have I said anything to suggest the final ending of dragons? If so it should be altered. The only passage I can think of is Vol. I p. 70 : ‘there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the old fire is hot enough’. But that implies, I think, that there are still dragons, if not of full primeval stature."

JRRT

Thanks for this

 

[Elthir]

(See? Despite your protests otherwise, I'm lazier than thou 😃)

Are you sure? Full disclusure: I took a nap between this post and my last post.

Plus, I couldn't be bothered to spell disclosre correctly. Twice!

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Not rily a promleb hear.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

Tolkien noted the following in a letter to Naomi Mitchison (1954) [as referred to above by S-Es]

"Some stray answers. Dragons. They had not stopped; since they were active in far later times, close to our own. Have I said anything to suggest the final ending of dragons? If so it should be altered. The only passage I can think of is Vol. I p. 70 : ‘there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the old fire is hot enough’. But that implies, I think, that there are still dragons, if not of full primeval stature."

JRRT

Thanks for this-- brings clarity.