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Do you think the Silmarillion movie series will fit into 7 movies?

Do you think the Silmarillion movie series will fit into 7 movies?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • No

    Votes: 9 90.0%

  • Total voters
    10

Turin_Turambar

Mormegil
Joined
Mar 25, 2021
Messages
532
It is obvious that after the rings of power series is over, the silmarillion will be made into a movie series. Do you think the book of the silmarillion will fit into 7 movies? I think it will fit if it is like this;
first movie: the creation of the ainur, the music of the eru, and the descent of melkor and the valar to fight each other in earth
second movie :the destruction of the lamps, melkor's transformation of the elves into orcs, and the battle of powers where utumno is destroyed
third movie :Melkor destroys trees, steals the Silmarils, and then the elves return to Middle-earth and the death of Feanor
fourth movie: all wars from battle of lammoth to nirnaeth arnoediad
fifth movie: story of children of hurin
sixth movie :story of fall of gondolin
seventh movie: war of wrath
 
It is obvious that after the rings of power series is over, the silmarillion will be made into a movie series. Do you think the book of the silmarillion will fit into 7 movies? I think it will fit if it is like this;
first movie: the creation of the ainur, the music of the eru, and the descent of melkor and the valar to fight each other in earth
second movie :the destruction of the lamps, melkor's transformation of the elves into orcs, and the battle of powers where utumno is destroyed
third movie :Melkor destroys trees, steals the Silmarils, and then the elves return to Middle-earth and the death of Feanor
fourth movie: all wars from battle of lammoth to nirnaeth arnoediad
fifth movie: story of children of hurin
sixth movie :story of fall of gondolin
seventh movie: war of wrath
Why is that obvious? Has somebody bought the rights?
 
The matter of obviousness/rights aside, to me, it depends greatly upon how a director chooses to adapt something. I mean, the whole first film -- as described above for example -- could also be shown relatively briefly, aided by narration -- as Kristen Stewart [Nerdanel] tells the creation tale to her sons, the Ambarussa brothers [or something similar].

something like what Jackson did with the Rings and how Sauron lost the One -- but better than what Jackson did with the Rings and how Sauron lost the One

Personally, I wouldn't try to adapt the entire Silmarillion in any case. I'd do The Children of Húrin: Kristen as Morwen. Me as a lazy cat in Dor-lómin, Menegroth, Nargothrond and Brethil.

And yeah, I know the tale doesn't exactly end on a high note, but I wouldn't mind the money I'd overpay me.

🐾
 
The Silmarillion as a movie series would be mild-blowing. There's SO MUCH material there, and look at how much filmmakers have been able to stretch what little they've been given rights to. I don't think they'd be able to fit them into a handful of movies, personally.

As much as I would love to see those glorious stories adapted to screen (think of all those locations and battles coming to life!), I'm glad the Tolkien estate is taking it slow on negotiating the rights for the rest of the works. I would absolutely hate for the Middle-earth legendarium to fall under the control of one corporation, whether it's Amazon or Disney or someone else. Look at how well that worked out for the Star Wars and Marvel franchises.
 
I would absolutely hate for the Middle-earth legendarium to fall under the control of one corporation, whether it's Amazon or Disney or someone else. Look at how well that worked out for the Star Wars and Marvel franchises.
This, absolutely.
I still think that we should get Hayao Miyazaki out of retirement to make it.
 
Why is that obvious? Has somebody bought the rights?
They showed nirnaeth arnoediad and the war of wrath in the series "Rings of Power". So that means hollywood has some rights. I believe they have the power to take the rest of the rights.

I was about to ask the same thing. Nobody has the rights to Silm (or UT) as far as I'm aware.
But in rings of power they showed many wars and events from the first age. So they have some rights.

The Silmarillion as a movie series would be mild-blowing. There's SO MUCH material there, and look at how much filmmakers have been able to stretch what little they've been given rights to. I don't think they'd be able to fit them into a handful of movies, personally.

As much as I would love to see those glorious stories adapted to screen (think of all those locations and battles coming to life!), I'm glad the Tolkien estate is taking it slow on negotiating the rights for the rest of the works. I would absolutely hate for the Middle-earth legendarium to fall under the control of one corporation, whether it's Amazon or Disney or someone else. Look at how well that worked out for the Star Wars and Marvel franchises.
Okay but if 7 movies of the silmarillion are made and each movie takes 3 hours or 4 hours then I think they can fit the whole book into 7 movies.
 
They showed nirnaeth arnoediad and the war of wrath in the series "Rings of Power". So that means hollywood has some rights. I believe they have the power to take the rest of the rights.
That doesn't mean a whole lot. Showing a few battle scenes and burning eagles is not an official indication that they're depicting that battle. The fact remains that they don't have the rights to The Silmarillion. If they did, they would probably use the chapter "Akallabêth" and would have the use of the name 'Annatar'.
 
Given The Estate’s outrage and anger over the Amazon series (albeit, their silence on the issue is loud), The Silmarilion will NEVER be licensed.

AND.

The Silmarillion isn’t a single License.

The Silmarillion is a hastily assembled collection of other works, which The Estate is not likely to part with as a single property, as occurred with Saul Zaentz and the License used for The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.

You have an incompleted Ainulindalë and Valaquenta, along with an Ambarkanta, and other works Tolkien wrote concerning the earlier Ages of Middle-earth, prior to the Quenta Silmarillion itself.

The Quenta Silmarillion is the title of the events from the Oath of Fëanor to the War of Wrath. But it also is not one work.

In the last three volumes of The History of Middle-earth, and in the Introduction to the entire series, Christopher Tolkien reveals he made an enormous error in publishing The Silmarillion BOTH as it is, AND as a single Volume.

His suggestion was that it would likely have been three to six works of three to six volumes each, with the works published akin to those such as The Children of Húrin, Beren & Lúthien, The Fall of Gondolin, and so on (combined with the respective portions of Unfinished Tales that are pertinent to each).

And we have another problem:

The most recent work on Tolkien from a respected scholar of Middle-earth, Carl Hostetter’s The Nature of Middle-earth reveals something only foreshadowed in those final three volumes of HoM-e: That Tolkien in his old age took a sledge-hammer to the earlier Myths of Middle-earth, out of what appears to be spite over the changing world, and especially that of Catholicism that would be come to be known as “Vatican II” (one of the most controversial subjects within Catholicism).

Tolkien’s entire life grew-out of a kind of reactionary Catholicism of Pope Pius IX, who was hugely influential upon the Spanish-Irish Priest, Father Morgan, who was Tolkien’s guardian after his Mother’s death.

Pope Pius IX, just prior to becoming the Pontiff, had published the Syllabus Errorum, which was a scathing indictment of The Enlightenment, Modernity, “Progress,” and especially the Sciences.

Pius, like most Christians of the time, were furious and terrified that the Sciences did not produce finding-after-finding verifying the “Truth” of their Theological Claims. And instead produced finding-after-finding that contradicted and falsified those claims. Like most of those who hold such inflexible and absolutist beliefs, the Catholic Church didn’t take this too well, and Pius IX convened the First Vatican Ecumenical Council (which would produce the eponymous Vatican I to the 20th Century’s Vatican II Encyclical).

But Pope Pius IX, and thus Father Morgan, and thus Tolkien in Kind, grew-up in that kind of Catholicism, and the events of Vatican II left them feeling “Betrayed” by the church, but unable to really do much but accept it given the forms of Catholicism at the time.

Vatican II basically overturned everything Vatican I established, which was the basis for Tolkien’s Middle-earth.

So Tolkien tore to shreds the earlier Mythology, calling it “Primitive Ignorance and Superstitions” among other things, saying it was just “Primitive Humanity’s stories to tell themselves about the Elves and how the universe came to be.”

In this regard, Tolkien was attempting something he both condemned and rejected, yet now forced upon his world without an adequate understanding of the consequences. That thing being Subjective, Jungian/Campbellian Archetypal Mythology.

Such a thing is completely contrary to Tolkien’s Theological and Metaphysical Foundations for Middle-earth. Yet it is hardly alone in that respect, as Tolkien constantly painted himself into Theological and Metaphysical Corners in his attempts to expunge any outright Heresy from the Universe of Eä, and thus Arda and Middle-earth, respectively.

So anything adapted from these earlier works faces some enormous challenges that The Estate REALLY NEEDS TO CONFRONT. Namely:

Creating a framework for selecting authors to “fill-in-the-blank-spots” and “Complete” the Mythos in a manner that does not violate existing canon, or makes a ruling upon that canon in some manner.

But as far as any future Licenses… I am doubtful The Estate will ever agree to such a thing.

MB
 
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They showed nirnaeth arnoediad and the war of wrath in the series "Rings of Power". So that means hollywood has some rights. I believe they have the power to take the rest of the rights.


But in rings of power they showed many wars and events from the first age. So they have some rights.
Amaz*n has the rights to the LotR appendices and the appendices mention some of the events in the Silm, which is why they can show them.

They can't "take" the rest of the rights. They could buy them, if - and it's a big "if" - the Tolkien estate was willing to sell.

But if this is the general consensus... why would they even bother?
 
Given The Estate’s outrage and anger over the Amazon series (albeit, their silence on the issue is loud), The Silmarilion will NEVER be licensed.

AND.

The Silmarillion isn’t a single License.

The Silmarillion is a hastily assembled collection of other works, which The Estate is not likely to part with as a single property, as occurred with Saul Zaentz and the License used for The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.

You have an incompleted Ainulindalë and Valaquenta, along with an Ambarkanta, and other works Tolkien wrote concerning the earlier Ages of Middle-earth, prior to the Quenta Silmarillion itself.

The Quenta Silmarillion
Thank you for this insight! It's sometimes easy to forget that the Silmarillion wasn't written as a single book, but your point about licensing totally makes sense. It confuses me a little how PJ and especially Amazon seemed to be missing fragments of characters or plot points to tell their story but piecemeal licensing answers that.

I love movies as much as I love books but I would rather Tolkien's works be kept safe rather than butchered and made into cash cows the way Disney has done to beloved franchises.
 
They showed nirnaeth arnoediad and the war of wrath in the series "Rings of Power". So that means hollywood has some rights. I believe they have the power to take the rest of the rights.

Showing something you are not licensed to show because you have lawyered-up isn’t the same as “Having the power to “take” the rest of the Rights.”

There is no Law that allows such a thing.




But in rings of power they showed many wars and events from the first age. So they have some rights.

And did so in violation of their license with The Estate.






Okay but if 7 movies of the silmarillion are made and each movie takes 3 hours or 4 hours then I think they can fit the whole book into 7 movies.

By the basic Rule-of-Thumb of Hollywood Adaptations¹, you are going to need far more than that.

The Silmarillion isn’t a single work, as I have already pointed-out, but a collection of nearly a dozen works.

Just going by the published works in The Children of Húrin, Beren & Lúthien, and The Fall of Gondolin you have about 200 to 300 minutes each.

And those are bare-bones accounts. You would need substantial fleshing-out of the stories, which would add probably 3 to 4 times as much material to each.

Christopher Tolkien had already told us, as I mentioned already, that the publication of The Silmarillion as it is now was a premature mistake on his part.


And as has been pointed-out by many, here, The Estate isn’t likely to feel too kindly toward allowing any future licenses after Amazon lied to their faces about their intent, and agreed-upon conditions to remain faithful to ALL canon.

Like Jackson’s movies, the TV series is no more Tolkien’s Middle-earth than is North Korea a “Democratic Republic,” just because either happen to paste those words to their contents.

If you look in The Letters of JRR Tolkien, specifically the bits regarding the Translation of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings into other languages, and the first attempted movie adaptation, you can see Tolkien seething at others taking such liberties with his works, and that they would be associated with something that he didn’t include in them, or that flatly contradicted them.


The Estate isn’t driven by “Money” or “Profit” as is Hollywood, and they have tended to react NEGATIVELY toward any who suggest such a thing (especially if trying to get their attention). They are principally concerned with protecting Tolkien’s Legacy, and that tends to mean taking JRR Tolkien’s words at face-value when he says he does not wish to be misrepresented, nor to have his name associated with something he disagrees with.

That latter part is typical of all Academics, but those who happen to be exceedingly Religious even more so.

Rather than seeing anything else of Tolkien’s mutilated by Hollywood, I would prefer to have a production of his main Novels that are faithful to those works, which we haven’t yet got.

The Rankin-Bass movie of The Hobbit remains the most faithful production of any of his works to date².

I wish that people would focus more on that than on mutilating other of his works.

MB





1. Which is:

1 Page of Novel/Print === 1 Page of Script/Screenplay === 1 minute of Screentime.

2. Although there is an end-run around the Zaentz’ License of the Ralph Bakshi production of The Lord of the Rings that would allow it to be completed, and the first portion “corrected” to produce an even more faithful work than the Rankin-Bass production of The Hobbit.
 

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