Elf-lords fostering Men

[Ardamir the Blessed]

UT, Narn I Hîn Húrin:

And those that saw this marvelled, for it was a sign that Thingol took Túrin as his foster-son; and that was not at that time done by kings, nor ever again by Elf-lord to a Man. Then Thingol said to him: "Here, son of Húrin, shall your home be; and in all your life you shall be held as my son, Man though you be.

Why the 'nor ever again by Elf-lord to a Man'? Didn't Elrond do this to Aragorn and the other chieftains of the North?

Appendix A:

Then Aragorn, being now the Heir of Isildur, was taken with his mother to dwell in the house of Elrond; and Elrond took the place of his father and came to love him as a son of his own.

Arahael his [Arvedui's] son was fostered in Rivendell, and so were all the sons of the chieftains after him

But maybe Elrond wasn't exactly considered as an Elf-lord.

The Hobbit introduces him as follows, at any rate:

The master of the house was an elf-friend - one of those people whose fathers came into the strange stories before the beginning of History, the wars of the evil goblins and the elves and the first men in the North. In those days of our tale there were still some people who had both elves and heroes of the North for ancestors, and Elrond the master of the house was their chief. He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer.

The implication here seems to be that he definitely wasn't an Elf-lord.

But Strider says this in 'A Knife in the Dark', which might make one believe that Elrond was regarded as an Elf-lord:

But from her [Lúthien] the lineage of the Elf-lords of old descended among Men. There live still those of whom Lúthien was the foremother, and it is said that her line shall never fail. Elrond of Rivendell is of that Kin.

Then there's this passage in 'The Council of Elrond', which I don't know what to think of:

'Ah, alas!' cried Glóin. 'When will the day come of our revenge? But still there are the Three. What of the Three Rings of the Elves? Very mighty Rings, it is said. Do not the Elf-lords keep them? Yet they too were made by the Dark Lord long ago. Are they idle? I see Elf-lords here. Will they not say?'
The Elves returned no answer. `Did you not hear me, Glóin?' said Elrond. `The Three were not made by Sauron, nor did he ever touch them. But of them it is not permitted to speak.

But Legolas says this about the sons of Elrond:

‘And have you marked the brethren Elladan and Elrohir? Less sombre is their gear than the others’, and they are fair and gallant as Elven-lords; and that is not to be wondered at in the sons of Elrond of Rivendell.’

Then we have Annael fostering Tuor.

The Silmarillion:

he was named Tuor, and was taken to foster by Annael of the Grey-elves

Túrin was sent to Doriath in FA 473 and Tuor was born in FA 472, so he was definitely fostered by Annael after FA 473. But I guess Annael wasn't an Elf-lord, though he does seem to be the leader of the Grey-elves of Mithrim:

UT, Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin:

For there was a dwelling of this people [Grey-elves] in the mountains westward of Lake Mithrim

Therefore Annael led his small people to the caves of Androth

 

[Beleg]

Why the 'nor ever again by Elf-lord to a Man'? Didn't Elrond do this to Aragorn and the other chieftains of the North?

We shall answer this through the Quotes posted by yourself.

Elrond took the place of his father and came to love him as a son of his own

Thingol Publically proclaimed Turin as his foster-son and Tolkien uses the words, fosterson in his case. Notice that in Elrond's case, the word's fosterson aren't used. Elrond loves him as a son, but hasn't proclaimed him as a fosterson.

Arahael his [Arvedui's] son was fostered in Rivendell, and so were all the sons of the chieftains after him

Other Elves are also living in Rivendell.

 

[Beleg]

On the Subject of Elf-Lords

I won't give the same canonical importance to Hobbit as to LOTR while considering ME matters. I would accept the implication given in LOTR, which makes him an elf-lord, mainly because It is a later work then Hobbit and It seems more probable.
And saying this I don't find any indication in the Quote you provided which negated his claim of being an elf-lord.

The master of the house was an elf-friend - one of those people whose fathers came into the strange stories before the beginning of History, the wars of the evil goblins and the elves and the first men in the North. In those days of our tale there were still some people who had both elves and heroes of the North for ancestors, and Elrond the master of the house was their chief. He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer.

The implication here seems to be that he definitely wasn't an Elf-lord.

How can you say that. Can't an Elf-lord be a master of a house and a valley. Remember Rivendell was no ordinary house, but a refuge, sort of like an Elvish fort, and only an elf of great, proclaimed lineage can rule it and weild the Elvish ring.
The second bolded part even moreso adds to the point/fact that Elrond was an elf-lord.

 

[Confusticated]

My take is that Elrond was not considered an Elf Lord.

"But from her the lineage of the Elf-lords of old descended among Men."
This is not enough to make the descendants Elf-lords, in my opinion.
"I see Elf-lords here. Will they not say?'
The Elves returned no answer. `Did you not hear me, Glóin?' said Elrond."
This still leaves open the possablity that Elrond was not one of those Elf-lords refered to. We know Glorfindel and Erestor were there. Also, even if Gimli did refer to Elrond as an Elf-lord, he might have doen so mistakening? I am not sure.

I do not see anything that contradicts Elrond not being an Elf-lord.

There is also another comment. Gandalf to Frodo in Bag End:

"The Three, fairest of all, the Elf-lords hid from him, and his hand never touched them or sullied them."
But, I suppose this doesn't refer to Elrond... as Gandalf says "hid" rather than "hide"?

Glorfindel is refered to as an Elf-lord several times in LotR, so I think it fair to assume that if Elrond were an Elf-lord, he'd probably be named so at some point.

I had not considered Tuor's fostering taking place after Turin's by Thingol. I suppose Annael may not have been counted an Elf-Lord.

To really answer that, I'd have to take a closer look at who is and who isn't named as Elf-Lords.
He may not have been an Elf-lord in title though he was in practice a lord of some elves.

 

[Ancalagon]

I wonder if the term 'fostering' in the quote

Arahael his [Arvedui's] son was fostered in Rivendell, and so were all the sons of the chieftains after him

refers to a generic 'fostering' of this family to the House itself and not so much Elrond uniquely? I guess the nearest I could describe them would be as 'wards of the court' whereby they are adopted into Rivendell itself. Notice, it say's 'so were all the sons of the Chieftans afterwards' meaning they grew up with their own families within Rivendell itself (or without, it is unclear) or at least were contunally welcome in Rivendell as part of the extended family therein. Aragorn is with his Mother in Rivendell, so the term 'fostering' does not act as a term of adoption as it is commonly understood. Bilbo might have been considered 'fostered' in Rivendell, and his family also!

Thingol however, actually names Túrin as a foster-son and takes upon himself the role of his foster father, this is significantly different in the fact Thingol is a pure-blood Elf-Lord in that he also had looked upon the Light of the Trees;

Therefore Oromë was sent again to them, and he chose from among them ambassadors who should go to Valinor and speak for their people; and these were Ingwë, Finwë and Elwë, who afterwards were kings. And coming they were filled with awe by the glory and majesty of the Valar, and desired greatly the light and splendour of the Trees................The Sea-elves therefore they became in the land of Aman, the Falmari, for they made music beside the breaking waves. Two lords they had, for their numbers were great: Elwë Singollo (which signifies Greymantle) and Olwë his brother.

I guess it is what constitutes an Elf-Lord in the eyes of the Elves!

Herendil, you are very welcome to join us in the Guild of Ost-in-Edhil, you would be a welcome addition to our small band of Eldar and your knowledge would be most refreshing in our debates

 

[Ithrynluin]

Re: On the Subject of Elf-Lords

Originally posted by Beleg_strongbow
How can you say that. Can't an Elf-lord be a master of a house and a valley. Remember Rivendell was no ordinary house, but a refuge, sort of like an Elvish fort, and only an elf of great, proclaimed lineage can rule it and weild the Elvish ring.
The second bolded part even moreso adds to the point/fact that Elrond was an elf-lord.

The implication that Elrond isn't an elf lord is there, Beleg. When something is compared to something else, it means that it bears some resemblance (or a lot of it), but in actuality it is not that same thing.

On the other hand, I find it very unfair that Elrond would not be referred to as an elf lord. He chose to be numbered among the Firstborn and his deeds and noble lineage certainly place him among not only Elf-lords, but the greatest Elves of all time.

But like you said Beleg, we shouldn't take every little statement from the Hobbit as pure fact (luckily! ).