🧝Elvish waters of Baranduin

[Ithrynluin]

Unfinished Tales; The Hunt for the Ring
My father nowhere explained the Ringwraiths' fear of water. In the account just cited it is made a chief motive in Sauron's assault on Osgiliath, and it reappears in detailed notes on the movement of the Black Riders in the Shire: thus of the Rider (who was in fact Khamûl of Dol Guldur, see note 1) seen on the far side of Bucklebury Ferry just after the Hobbits had crossed (The Fellowship of the Ring I 5) it is said that "he was well aware that the Ring had crossed the river; but the river was a barrier to his sense of its movement and that the Nazgûl would not touch the "Elvish" waters of Baranduin. But it is not made clear how they crossed other rivers that lay in their path, such as the Greyflood, where there was only "a dangerous ford formed by the ruins of the bridge" (p. 277). My father did indeed note that the idea was difficult to sustain.

What do you think was "Elvish" about Baranduin (Brandywine)?

Baranduin originates from Lake Nenuial, which was once the abode of Celeborn and Galadriel, who were mighty among the Eldar.

Could this be the "Elvish" touch upon Baranduin? If so, what exactly was the nature of this 'touch'?

If not, what other explanation could there be?

 

[Astaldo]

Baranduin originates from Lake Nenuial, which was once the abode of Celeborn and Galadriel, who were mighty among the Eldar.

Could this be the "Elvish" touch upon Baranduin? If so, what exactly was the nature of this 'touch'?

If not, what other explanation could there be?

Maybe Galadriel blessed Baranduin's waters or the Lake Nenuial.

 

[Ithrynluin]

Galadriel would not have had her ring at that time, so that can't have contributed in making any spell.

Otherwise, I guess we can simply ascribe it to Elven 'magic'.

But what motivation would she have to bless these waters?

Just the general desire to do good, in whatever way possible?

Or some premonition that she herself could not yet grasp - Such as making passage more difficult for any enemies to come this way (who seem to have shunned water, the element of Ulmo, ubiquitously).

 

[Astaldo]

Maybe a Vala or a Maia helped her or told her to bless the waters. Perhaps Ulmo or Osse even Uinen.

There is and another possibilty. Remember the mothe of Goldberry? She had to do something with the waters. Of what race she was we do not know so we cannot say that she was not "born" that time. Maybe she has done something to these waters (something good) and everybody says that it is Elvish. Crazy theory but I wanted to express it.

 

[Alatar]

Well, galadriel stayed at lake Nenuial, and at that time i think that there were a number of elves under her rule, most who later moved to the havens. In apendix A it says that beoyed the (river)Lune there was a fair elvish country. Now if we go with the stroythat Gladriel and Cel past over the mountains BEFORE the WoW then there is about 1000 years of elvish influence before G&C leve, and maybe the reach of the havens streched to the Branywine, as before the Elves left, they needed land, so maybe the elves stayed there for 2000 years, and they still wandered around those parts till the end of the TA.
We hear from Legolas that Erigon still remained elvish, now erigon was around for 1000 years, the elvish influence on the branywine lasted(maybe) for 6500+ years.
So that got into the water.

 

[Valandil]

:
Baranduin originates from Lake Nenuial, which was once the abode of Celeborn and Galadriel, who were mighty among the Eldar.
:

Ithrynluin (and Alatar, who also mentions this) - I was unaware of this. Where is this information found, and when did they dwell there? I scanned the pertinent portions of UT yesterday and didn't see it. Is it in one of the HoME books?

 

[Alatar]

In the harper collins UTpages 302 to 303.
It says that there Amroth was born, so it is part of that stage of their history.

 

[Valandil]

OK - thank you. I have the paperback, but was able to find it with that direction. Just wanted to make sure it fit (or see how to fit it) into my own view of Arnorian history. But they were there so early in the Second Age that there's really no effect (except adding a little more to the richness of the history). And - even with Amroth no longer considered their son, I think we can still take it that they were in the Nenuial area in that time frame.