Glorfindel's lineage

[Turgon]

Speculations of the lineage of Glorfindel...

from Finarfin's entry in the index of the Silmarillion.
'Alone among the Noldorin princes he and his descendants had golden hair, derived from his mother Indis who was a Vanyarin Elf.'

Gandalf speaking of Glorfindel.
'...you saw him for a moment as he is on the other side: one of the mighty of the Firstborn. He is an Elf-lord of a house of princes.'

from 'Many Meetings'
'Glorfindel was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of joy; his eyes were bright and keen, and his voive like music; om his brow sat wisdom, and in his hand was strength.'

Putting these three statements together it would seem reasonable to suppose that Glorfindel was a prince of the House of Finarfin, that is to say a decendant of Finarfin himself. Yet there is no direct mention of this in any of Tolkien's work. At least I cannot find anything to support this idea one way or the other.

Is it possible that Glorfindel is indeed a Prince of the House of Finarfin? If so from which line is he he descended? Finrod we are told had no children. There is mention in 'The Grey Annals' in vol. XI of HoME of a certain Haldir son of Orodreth, one possibility. Finduilas we can presume died without issue. Angrod and Aegnor, are also possible fathers of this Golden-haired Noldorin prince.

On the other hand it seems strange to me that Tolkien would make no definite statement upon Glorfindel's lineage, if indeed he did envision him as descendant of Finarfin. Was this an oversight in his part or an issue he never quite got around to addressing?

Any thoughts?

 

[Thorin]

I think he may be a relative but not directly descended from Finarfin's line. He was in Turgon's service in Gondolin and it only makes sense that Glorfindel would be of Turgon's folk. So my guess is that Glorfindel is of the house of Fingolfin..

That is speculation of course. I don't have the time or energy to look anything up.

 

[Turgon]

But the princes of Fingolfin's house were dark-haired - and the population of Gondolin was not solely made up of Noldor from Fingolfin's house, there was also a significant population of Sindar. It later years when the kindoms of Beleriand began to fall, many Elves sought refuge in the Hidden Kingdom. It's quite possible that Glorfindel was one of these; seeking refuge there after the Dagor Bragollach, when the Northern Kingdoms of the Sons of Finarfin were destroyed.

Again these are just ideas... but it seems to me unlikely that Glorfindel was of the house of Fingolfin.

 

[Cian]

In one of the Glorfindel essays Tolkien penned that while Glorfindel left Valinor in the host of Turgon, and so incurred the ban, he did so reluctantly because of "kinship" with Turgon and allegiance to him.

Don't know if that helped though~

 

[Turgon]

But Turgon's wife, Elenwe, was of the Vanyar herself (in some versions of the tale) so it's quite possible that Idril had inherited her golden-hair from her mother. Your post suggests to me, Cian, that Glorfindel was related to Turgon through Elenwe...?!? Do you think this a possibility?

 

[Cian]

I had edited that out (Idril's hair) before I saw your message because the main thrust was intended to be the "kinship" part in any event

Oh, and I added the wording from the essay. Sorry 'bout the confusion but I edited as quick as I might

 

[Turgon]

With regard to the refugees Smeagol. Many searched for the protection Gondolin had to offer - Arminas and Gelmir spring immediately to mind - and I'm sure many of them found it. Why else would Turgon make a law that any who found the Hidden city would have to remain there?

As for Glorfindel - for me there is no doubt the the two of them are indeed the same person. But that as you say is a subject much debated!!!

But the question has now moved on. How was Glorfindel related to Turgon, if he was a kinsman, then was he somehow related to Elenwe, Turgon's wife?

 

[mr underhill]

hey yo im just a nosey n00b but i beg you to stay online as im all on my own.. boo hoo..

 

[mr underhill]

maybe there was a secret staircase from rivendell to gondolin!!!

 

[mr underhill]

that was a joke......a sort of sarcastic one......

anyway i think the elves knew a lot more than they were letting on...

 

[Turgon]

Alas Mr Underhill - Gondolin disappeared beneath the waves many ages ago!

 

[mr underhill]

yeah i know.. i sorta skimmed the whole book!!!

 

[mr underhill]

i was there last week.... those elves are real party animals...

 

[Ithrynluin]

Perhaps Glorfindel was a kinsman of Turgon's wife(being of the Vanyar and thus having golden hair).I think it's very likely.
Also,I believe the 2 Glorfindels to be the same person.

 

[Melian Le Fay]

I don;t really remember that chapter from LOTR when Glorfindel helps Aragorn and Hobbits, and saves them from the Nazgul, but I remember that there was something special about Glorfindel; that the Nazgul could see him, because he sort of existed in both worlds...My guess is that he expirienced death, and was in Mandos...and he's back among the "living" of Middle Earth, so supposedly he exists in both worlds : the world of the living and the world of those whose souls were taken from this life... ( like the Nazgul, they didn't really "exist" among the living of Middle Earth )...hmmm....maybe I didn't expalin it very well, so if any of you should have any problems understanding me, please let me know!!!!!

 

[Melian Le Fay]

about the colour of the hair

I was told that not only the Vanyar were fair-haired, but also were Elwe and Cirdan ( they had either "golden or silver hair" )...and some of the silvan Elves, and that Celeborn, Thranduil and Legolas were related to Elwe, so supposedly they had fair hair too....
So much about the theory that only the Vanyar and their offsprings were
blonde!!!!!

 

[¤-Elessar-¤]

I believe Millena hit on this fact, but here it goes anyway

The first quote said that one line of the Noldorian princes had golden hair. Was Glorfindel specifically of Noldorian Lineage?

 

[Rúmil]

Nobody knows. In the Sil insex he is just "an Elf of Gondolin". There are many long threads about whether he is the same as the one from the Ford in Lotr, but my answer is no.

 

[Turgon]

Specifically Noldorin? No. But neither could he be of Sindar or Silvan lineage, coming as he did to Middle Earth from Valinor in Turgon's host. He could possibly be of Teleri descent, but I think that is unlikely. My own revised opinion is this: Glorfindel was of the Vanyar. I've based this on Cian's quote that Glorfindel was a kinsman of Turgon... of Turgon but not of Fingolfin? So a kinsman how? Through Elenwe of the Vanyar, Turgon's wife? It seems the most likely answer.

 

[Tar-Elenion]

JRRt specifically says Glorfindel is a Noldo. I have theorized that he might be descended from Fingolfin's sister who accompanied Fingolfin into exile.