Had 🧙Gandalf forgotten something?

[Arvedui]

From The Shadow of the Past:

The Three, fairest of all, the Elf-lords hid from him, and his hand never touched them or sullied them. Seven the Dwarf-kings possessed, but three he has recivered, and the others the dragons have consumed. Nine he gave to Mortal Men, proud and great, and so ensnared them. Long ago they fell under the dominion of the One, and they became Ringwraiths, shadows under his great Shadow, his most terrible servants. Long ago. It is many a year since the Nine walked abroad. Yet who knows? As the Shadow grows once more, they too may walk again.

As I understand Gandalf here, he must completely have overlooked Angmar.
How come?

 

[Celebthôl]

I think he meant the 9 as a whole, not just the witch king alone. For when the witch king was at Angmar the 9 were dwelling in Minas Morgul i think, and didnt venture abroad.

 

[Mithlond]

Angmar was destroyed 1000+ years before that conversation in Bagend..
Then a few years later the Nazgul captured Minas Ithil and remained there (or so i think) for quite some time without venturing about.
This still leaves atleast 1000 years before Gandalf mentioned those words..so this is probably what he was refering to.

 

[BlackCaptain]

Yeah, Sauron had been keeping the Nazgul in Mordor to rebuild Barad-Dûr and arange his coming and what not when he was in Dol Goldur. He didn't want them to go abroad because they were his most powerful weapons and he didn't want to loose them before they he could do any damage!

As for you're Angmar question, Mithlond is right. My ancient home had been evacuated many many years before hand

 

[Lhunithiliel]

And I wonder...
Were the 9 rings given to Men at one and the same time?

 

[BlackCaptain]

I'm not really sure... I'll have to look that up soon though cuz I'm doing a biogrophy on the Nazgûl soon, as you know . But I think I remember reading somewhere that they were given at different times...

 

[YayGollum]

Well, it looks like these people are making all kinds of sense. Also, anyone ever think that this Gandalf guy might just not know everything?

 

[Arvedui]

I also first thought of the time since Angmar was destroyed, could be considered as 'many a year.'
But what puzzled me is the final sentence in the quote:

As the Shadow grows once more, they too may walk again.

This indicates that Gandalf seems to think that the Nine haven't been around since The Last Alliance.

 

[BlackCaptain]

They haven't. Much like Sauron, the Nazgûl grew back slowly, and in secret. They regained power as Sauron regrew power. While Sauron went to Dol Goldûr, the Nazgûl stayed in Mordor as shadows and fear, rebuilding the Dark Tower.

 

[Arvedui]

Which makes Gandalf's statement a contradiction!
Either, they haven't been around since Sauron went on his long vacation, or they have.
The Witch-king obviously was, so why shouldn't the other ones have been?

 

[Scatha]

The witchking was the most powerful of them, thus had regained enough power long before the ringwraiths had.

 

[BlackCaptain]

K...

-Kingdom of Angmar was defeated... Witch King left for Mordor
-Sauron was defeated in the last alliance, All of Nazgûl, including me, were "killed"
-After 1,000 years or so, Gandalf tells Frodo that they haven't been abroad for a long time, but they might be soon. Any further questions? Am I making sense?

 

[Anamatar IV]

No...no that isn't right. Angmar was destroyed well after the Last Alliance. The name eludes me, but there was a King of Gondor who went to Arnor to fight the Witch King. He would have battled him, but the King's horse was scared and darted away. Glorfindel then caused the Witch King to flee. Since Elendil was the FIRST King of Gondor, the Last Alliance happened before.

 

[BlackCaptain]

Oh well still... The point is it all happened so long ago, that it doesnt realy apply...

I think you're getting confused, Arvedui, with the fact that they didn't walk abroad. They just stayed in Mordor as Shadows in the East. They didn't do any traveling far and wide until the incedent in Buckland. They just slowly came back when Sauron did, and stayed in Mordor or Dol Goldur, and they weren't in their embodiement. They just stayed as wraiths.

 

[pgt]

I think you about had it there Black, just a little out of order. If I may borrow your verbage how about...

A) -Sauron was defeated in the last alliance, All of Nazgûl, including Black, were "killed" (Where was the Witch King in all of this and did he survive or was he in fact 'killed'?)

B) -Kingdom of Angmar was defeated... Witch King left for Mordor (how many years ago? - I don't remember the dates offhand)

C) -After 'many' years or so, Gandalf tells Frodo that they haven't been abroad for a long time, but they might be soon. True - both the Alliance and Angmar were a long time ago - no?

The curious issue that doesn't seem to logically fit and isn't explained away by the text is the Witchkings independent and out of sequence appearance and rise to power. He was able to come back and take form and all that all by himself apparently and when Sauron and the others members of the gang were nothing more than a whisp of smoke or other. And not only did he come back on his own, he probably is the only one to have had serious success in their plans for world domination. In fact personally and in retrospect - I think it would have been more interesting had the books just written off Sauron and let this dude be the 3rd in a long line of Dr Evils.