Has there been skirmish on the outskirts of Lothlórien?

[Turin_Turambar]

Skirmish in the outskirts of Lothlórien

The skirmish took place when the Orcs of Moria pursued the Fellowship of the Ring to the outskirts of Lothlórien and were destroyed by Haldir and the Lórien Guard. To be added To be added To be added While this part of the story is cut from all versions of The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship...

middle-earthcinematicuniverse.fandom.com

in this link it says that when the fellowship came to lothlorien it was attacked by a group of orcs and goblins. is that true? if true, did an army attack the fellowship and the lothlorien? Or was it a small group?

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

They were tracked from Moria by orcs, but not attacked; the few Elves with the party led the orcs further away.

One of the Elves, Haldir, tells Frodo, among other things:

". . .we cannot risk battle. A strong company of Orcs has passed."

"The three of us could not challenge a hundred, so we went ahead and spoke with feigned voices, leading them on into the wood."

"None of the Orcs will ever return out of Lorien."

Nothing further is heard of them.

Not to be rude, but I'm curious:
1) Don't you have a copy of LOTR? It's easy enough to look up; it's in the "Lothlorien" chapter

2) Is this really a suitable subject for a poll? It's not really a matter of opinion.

 

[Turin_Turambar]

They were tracked from Moria by orcs, but not attacked; the few Elves with the party led the orcs further away.

One of the Elves, Haldir, tells Frodo among other things:

". . .we cannot risk battle. A strong company of Orcs has passed."

"The three of us could not challenge a hundred, so we went ahead and spoke with feigned voices, leading them on into the wood."

"None of the Orcs will ever return out of Lorien."

Nothing further is heard of them.

Not to be rude, but I'm curious:
1) Don't you have a copy of LOTR? It's easy enough to look up; it's in the "Lothlorien" chapter

2) Is this really a suitable subject for a poll? It's not really a matter of opinion.

In fact, I was just wondering if the Moria Orcs were as big as an army and if the event was big enough to be called war. I have almost all the middle-earth books. But I will start reading not now, but after moving to America. For now, I am content with the information on the internet.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Well, I quoted the relevant parts.

One bit of advice: I'd be leery of some of the stuff on the Internet, particularly the Fandom Wiki, which tends to mix books, movies, and videogames, sometimes indiscriminately, and without distinguishing among them, to the confusion of readers.

 

[Radaghast]

According to the timeline in "The Tale of Years" in the Appendices, Lórien was attacked thrice, on the 11th, 15th and 19th of March 3019.

After the fall of the Dark Tower and the passing of Sauron the Shadow was lifted from the hearts of all who opposed him. but fear and despair fell upon his servants and allies. Three times Lórien had been assailed from Dol Guldur, but besides the valour of the elven people of that land, the power that dwelt there was too great for any to overcome, unless Sauron had come there himself. Though grievous harm was done to the fair woods on the borders, the assaults were driven back; and when the Shadow passed, Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lórien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Right, there were battles later, but Turin's question -- and the linked article -- were specifically about the Fellowship.

 

[Turin_Turambar]

Right, there were battles later, but Turin's question -- and the linked article -- were specifically about the Fellowship.

A question came to my mind regarding this matter. Is it a minor conflict when the fellowship is attacked in Lothlorien and the lothlorien elves drive back the orcs? Or is it something big enough to be called a war?

 

[Radaghast]

The Fellowship does not get attacked in Lórien.

 

[Elthir]

I'd especially avoid "cinematic universe" pages.

To quote Gando quoting me:

Just sayin'

 

[Turin_Turambar]

The Fellowship does not get attacked in Lórien.

I don't know if the fellowship fought or not. But there was a war between elves and Moria orcs in Lothlorien. This is what it says in the source I gave below. Read the part of war of the ring. This attack happened the night the fellowship came.

Lothlórien

Lothlórien was a kingdom of Silvan Elves on the eastern side of the Hithaeglir. It was considered one of the most beautiful and "elvish" places in Middle-earth during...

tolkiengateway.net

 

[Radaghast]

This is what I was responding to:

Is it a minor conflict when the fellowship is attacked in Lothlorien...

No, there was no attack on the Fellowship anywhere in or around Lórien and no, that was not a major battle in Lórien. There are 100 orcs according to Haldir, so I suppose that would count as a skirmish.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

The book says nothing about a "regiment" of Elves; I don't know where Tolkien Gateway got that. And as said above, after the orc band is led deeper into the forest, nothing more is heard about them.

But if you find something more, in the book, you can certainly post it here.

 

[Elthir]

The Company encountered a marching host of Elves who were hastening toward the northern borders. These Elves brought news, and Haldir reported some of it [the news], noting that: "The marauding orcs had been waylaid and almost all destroyed; the remnant had fled westward towards the mountains, and were being pursued."

For what that's worth anyway. Chapter Lothlórien.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Ahah. Well, that's more. 😄

I confess I'd forgotten that bit.

Was it a "regiment"?

 

[Turin_Turambar]

This is what I was responding to:

No, there was no attack on the Fellowship anywhere in or around Lórien and no, that was not a major battle in Lórien. There are 100 orcs according to Haldir, so I suppose that would count as a skirmish.

Where exactly does it say that the number of orcs is 100? In the link I gave at the beginning of the topic, a specific number was not given for the orcs. Moreover, it was stated that the Ring Fellowship was a part of this war. How do you know that the Ring fellowship did not fight in this war?

 

[Radaghast]

Where exactly does it say that the number of orcs is 100? In the link I gave at the beginning of the topic, a specific number was not given for the orcs.

But it was given in the quote given by SES, the first response in this thread.

Moreover, it was stated that the Ring Fellowship was a part of this war. How do you know that the Ring fellowship did not fight in this war?

Because I read the book, which tracks every member of the fellowship from their forming till they leave the stage. At no point do they engage in any combat anywhere around or in Lórien.

 

[Ent]

I'm so very confused.
It seems to me the original post only says this skirmish is "confirmed in the book "The Lord Of The Rings, Weapons and Warfare" which as far as I know is completely extra-Tolkinien, and is based on filmology,.

Did it actually happen?
From all I see above, and my own reading/understanding of viable source texts, no it did not.
Or at least, what the 'filmology' has done is to take a statement made in the book and expand it into something belonging in the Great Halls...

Am I not caught up correctly with all the posts here?

 

[Elthir]

How do you know that the Ring fellowship did not fight in this war?

'Cause the story follows the Fellowship into Lothlorien and they simply do not fight. Basically, they go on to meet Galadriel and Celeborn in Caras Galadhon.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

The number could have been Haldir's figure of speech for "a large number". It was night, after all, and the Elves were, I imagine, more intent on drawing the orcs away, than in making a careful count.

On the other hand, these were Elves, and Legolas was able to count 105 Rohirrim at a distance of 5 leagues. I doubt much difference between the abilities of Lorien elves and Mirkwood elves.

Of course, Legolas, as the son of a king, may have been kept at his counting lessons more strictly than the other kids. 😉

 

[Ent]

OK I've followed the advice of my best friend now.
"I checked and corroborated all the facts which were mentioned" ...................................................... Sherlock Holmes

If the question is 'was there a skirmish filmed at some point' the answer seems to be "yes". It was filmed, but became part of the cut content of the movie.

If the question is "was there a skirmish" in LoTR, the answer is "yes", there appears to have been a skirmish "somewhere", though where is not stated, between the elves and the marauding orcs. The Elf group that did them in (save for a few, since it is said they were 'almost all' destroyed) was heading toward the northern borders to guard against any attack from Moria.

If the question is "did the fellowship fight in the battle" -
- for the deleted film content, I cannot tell as it is not cited.
- for LoTR, absolutely not, as such a skirmish with them involved never happened.

This one doesn't go to the "Great Halls..." as the written materials are clear, and no filmography of any kind makes it there - though I fear much filmography spurs many questions, and often arguments, before things become rightly sorted out.