How much do you ❤️ Fëanor?

[Ingwë]

First... About The Silmarilion: Tolkien wanted to publish that book but his publisher didn't want because they thought that it will not be a 'bestseller'. the real problem are the publishers:

123 From a draft to Milton Waldman 5 February 1950
At about the time that he was finishing The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien was introduced to Milton Waldman, an editor with the London publisher Collins. Waldman expressed great interest in the new book, and also in The Silmarillion, which Tolkien hoped would be published in conjunction with The Lord of the Rings. As Allen & Unwin had not accepted The Silmarillion when Tolkien offered it to them in 1937, he now believed that he should try to change his publisher; accordingly he showed Waldman those parts of The Silmarillion of which there were fair copies. Waldman said he would like to publish it if Tolkien would finish it.

But HarperCollins didn't published the Silmarilion so it remained unfinished.
Stupid publisher... The Sil is great book


And I agree with you, Indy. Fëanor is tragic character.

Feanor loved his mother dearly, though except in obstinacy their characters were widely different. He was not gentle. He was proud and hot-tempered, and opposition to his will he met not with the quiet steadfastness of his mother but with fierce resentment.

Maybe his mother's lost played part in his deeds or just made him more wary. He didn't believed the others. He was cautious. That made him more hot-tempered. Indeed tragic but very proud. And there was a reason for that: he created the Silmarilli
Indy, I don't like him but I don't reject his godd deeds

Oh, I nearly forgot this quote:

The death of Miriel Perinde - death of an 'immortal' Elda in the deathless land of Aman - was a matter of grave anxiety to the Valar, the first presage of the Shadow that was to fall on Valinor. The matter of Finwe and Miriel and the judgement that the Valar after long debate finally delivered upon it is elsewhere told. Only those points that may explain the conduct of Feanor are here recalled. Miriel's death was of free will: she forsook her body and her fea went to the Halls of Waiting, while her body lay as if asleep in a garden. She said that she was weary in body and spirit and desired peace.

 

[Grond]

First... About The Silmarilion: Tolkien wanted to publish that book but his publisher didn't want because they thought that it will not be a 'bestseller'. the real problem are the publishers: But HarperCollins didn't published the Silmarilion so it remained unfinished.
Stupid publisher... The Sil is great book...

As you can see from the quote you provided... the work was not finished... hence the comment "so it remained unfinished." In later years, there was a great interest on the part of Unwin to publish the Sil but Tolkien couldn't reconcile the problems between his history and the LOTR, though he worked on it sporadically (as illustrated in the later HoME volumes). I continue to maintain that the author had ample opportunity to publish the work... he chose (his choice) not to.

Cheers,

grond

 

[Thorondor_]

Feanor did try to take the ships by force (an evil deed) but the killing only began after the Teleri began attacking the Noldor, and the Noldor attacked back

I don't think that Silmarillion tells us that the Teleri attacked first:

Thereupon Feanor left him, and sat in dark thought beyond the walls of Alqualondë, until his host was assembled. When he judged that his strength was enough, he went to the Haven of the Swans and began to man the ships that were anchored there and to take them away by force. But the Teleri withstood him, and cast many of the Noldor into the sea. Then swords were drawn, and a bitter fight was fought upon the ships, and about the lamplit quays and piers of the Haven, and even upon the great arch of its gate.

 

[Inderjit S]

Indeed, if Midddle-Earth was full of Vanyar like Elves, then it would IMO make for a very boring tale. They lived in constant peace. Er...yeah.

Thorondor, of course the Noldor began to man the ships "by force" but it doesn't say anybody died (it was, of course, a wicked act) people only started to die after the Teleri began to throw the Noldor into the sea. I am not exonerating the Noldor here though.

 

[Grond]

... Thorondor, of course the Noldor began to man the ships "by force" but it doesn't say anybody died (it was, of course, a wicked act) people only started to die after the Teleri began to throw the Noldor into the sea. I am not exonerating the Noldor here though.

The Teleri (ship builders) couldn't swim???? Did the Teleri have swords or only bows? Sounds like Tolkien was stating that the swords started the killing.

Cheers,

grond

 

[Ingwë]

Thorondor, of course the Noldor began to man the ships "by force" but it doesn't say anybody died (it was, of course, a wicked act) people only started to die after the Teleri began to throw the Noldor into the sea. I am not exonerating the Noldor here though.

1. [highlight]Fact:[/highlight] The Noldor began to man the ships of the Teleri but they didn't wanted to give their ships
2. [highlight]Fact:[/highlight] The Teleri defended themselves throwing the Noldor into the Sea because they wanted not to give their own ships to the rebelled Noldor
3. [highlight]Fact:[/highlight] The Noldor began killing the Teleri and took their ships

 

[Inderjit S]

Well I guess some of the Teleri had swords since they were fighting with the Noldor on the Quays-and I doubt they could fight in close proximity with their bows or hands. I guess they could swim, but it was the Noldor who were thrown into the sea, the Noldor didn't kill the Teleri they tried to take the ships by force, after they were resisted the kinslaying began.

Ingwe- as for your third 'fact' read the passage again.

 

[Ingwë]

I have read it many times but it is in the thread. We see that the Teleri withstood Fëanor and cast many of the Noldor in the Sea. And the, I suppose, the Noldor became angry and began using swords. So they killed many Teleri.
But also it was the Noldor who wanted to seize their ships.

 

[Thorondor_]

Did the Teleri have swords or only bows?

I think that both:

the Teleri had less strength, and were armed for the most part but with slender bows.