Spoilers How would you conceptualize Rings of Power as a writer?

[d4rk3lf]

Hello my friends

Curios too see how would you conceptualize this series if you were hired as a main writer?
Just like a rough sketch.

I'd of course try to respect the lore, and here is my quick attempt:
Season 1:
Quick introduction to Valinor, First Age, and the battle when Morgoth is taken out. Introduction to main and side characters. Showing Numenor in it's beginning glory, and their friendship with the elves. Showing Noldors and Dwarfs in MIdle Earth and their amazing smithing skills.
Season 2 :
Numenor slowly begins to corrupt. People start asking themselves why they are not immortall? Elves froom Valinor warns them it would be best to just accept their fate and gift of Illuvatar. Back in M.E. Anatar shows himself, and start showing elven smiths amazing tips in forging. We bring more characters to brake down the monotony. We have (mortal) humans that we can change each season, and (immortal) elves that are main characters.
Season 3:
Numenor is even much more corrupted now. Elves stopped coming there. The great rings are forged in M.E., and elves realize that they were betrayed and that Anatar is Sauron. A great war erupts. Sauron have big war success. Yet, we are still in sort of stale position in the end of the season, but we can clearly see that elves are exhausted, while Sauron is stronger, and preparing to crush all middle earth.
Season 4:
Ar-Pharason is born, and we see his brutal way to become king. Hearing that Sauron proclaimed himself as a M.E. ruler, he goes berserk, he gather thousands of ship, and start sailing to middle earth. All Sauron forces flee, and Sauron (wisely) submit himself and agree to be prisoner. Quickly he becomes king advisor and convince king to attack Valinor to gain immortality. End of season - drawing of Numenor.
Season 5:
Handful of surviving Numenorians arrive at M.E. and with their previous fortifications (that Numenorians built before), they make Kingdoms of Arnor and Gondor. Sauron start attacking. All realize that they need to unite or they will all fall one by one. The last alliance is forged, and the end of the season is what we saw in intro of movies.
-----------------------
Few notes:

- The above is just a rough plan. Then, from there, I wouldn't mind any new invented character, invented event, twist or anything like it. As long as it in within these rough points everything is cool.
I would be very open to fresh idea. I intentionally didn't mentioned any character (with exception of Ar-Pharazon and Sauron), as I would give other writers freedom to experiment with various characters (new or old) whatever they want.

- I hear often that the series creator had to compress the timeline, because series is not the books.. etc.
I don't agree with that at all. I can understand for movies, but for the series, the way Tolkien wrote Second age is perfectly suited, and timeline and characters are perfectly match for the series format.
For example:
Every series need to have protagonist (and antagonist) that needs to be there through all seasons.
Great - we have elves and maias (still we can make some elves die)
Every series need to also change characters so they broke monotony.
Great - we have humans (and dwarfs).
Additionally,by making man changing from season to season, we outspokenly said about man mortality, and in season 3 and 4, it's perfectly understandable why are man so pissed about immortality (we, as a viewer are too, because we attached to some peoples from previous seasons).
---------------------

What do you think?

 

[Ent]

I think you should start fleshing it out a bit more, eventually expand it into a "fanfic" book series, and try to get it published.

It would make a nice core for a TV series too, yes... though I think it could (and maybe should) go to more than 5 seasons.

Other things could be referred to and set in their place as well, such as the Woses, and the Ents.
And don't forget the Black Numenoreans - the 3rd group of the Dunadain - (the Corsairs among them) - that came back actually before the Faithful left Numeanor, and became vassals of Sauron. Possibilities there?

Anyway, there's good stuff here.
'go for it'.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

Wow, @d4rk3lf . This is excellent.

 

[The Void]

Well I wouldn't have made it like a TV series. It will never make the $$$ that PJ made with his mega-long movies. Avatar is another that shows people are willing to pay well for a very long movie (intermission for toilet/food/drink breaks would be good).
I would also get a Director who can do the 'Big Picture' that Tolkien's early Ages demanded. Tolkien's 1st & 2nd Ages are 'historical' in their style - just like Asimov's Foundation series which was based upon the History of Rome, etc. Epic, grandeur and big picture stuff.
Amazon's effort is 'cheap' - keep it small, spend less and if it doesn't rate well, then don't continue another season. Simple stuff from Amazon that just wants more $$$ exploiting Tolkien but not prepared to put the effort in to make it 'movie-history-making' like PJ did with LOTR/Hobbit. It's a series that puts as little into it as possible, hoping to make as much $$$ as possible. This never works and thus - the world wide backlash from Fans.
If Pj's LOTR/Hobbit effort was like Star Wars's Ep: 4 A New Hope.
Then Amazon's effort is more like Ep: 5 The Empire Strikes Back.
Tolkien fans need a Director and Company that can sum up Ep: 6 Return of the Jedi - and bring back a quality epic effort of movies.

Long before PJ started towards making LOTR. I actually got a bit of a rumor that someone in New Zealand was going to make The Hobbit. This was about 10 years before PJ got started on LOTR. Rumor of actors like David Bowie, Tim Finn (Split Enz), Steve Kilby (the Church) and a few other 'localised' actors were being hinted at as potential characters with Bowie being Thranduil.

Anyway, you would need a Director like Cammeron, R. Scott, Villeneuve or someone new who has the potential to dream big, but just needs the break to prove it. It would be wise to employ WETA WORKSHOP again because they are tried and tested with success.
For the 'intimate' love scenes of characters like Beren and Luthian, you would need Female Writers on hand to bring a sense of personal appeal to female fans and others who need more than just a 'historical' account. You could stick to canon, but just gloss it all up more so upon a character and personality level to appeal more to the audience more so. Bring in a bit more 'love' and emotion to what could be an otherwise 'stale' history lesson.

Don't be afraid to do it like an Ent. Knowing that even x3 three-hour-long movies would just cover a small portion of it all.
That's where things always go wrong. Trying to shove in as much as possible in as short a time, is the biggest mistake (1984's Dune).
If you can't do it properly, then don't do it at all. (hint: Amazon)
If the creation of the Ainur by Eru and the creation of Arda takes a full hour - so be it. Get it right. All 'good' things take time. In Melkor's case, he was never patient. Mistakes always happen, when you rush things.

If someone follows this direction. There is no reason why the 3rd effort (Amazon being the second effort after Peter Jackson's first) can be even greater than PJ's LOTR/HOBBIT effort.

Draw it out into 3 hours. Stick to canon as much as possible, but add the icing and decoration to Tolkien's cake. And so what if you only get to cover just 10% of the First Age. You can follow it up with another 3 hour movie later.

I think its time that a Movie is made that 'starts from the beginning' with Eru appearing from the Void. No detached 'intro' needed. Just start at the beginning and let Eru do his thing.

The 'magic' of Tolkien's works is that it shows exactly the saying "All good things take time."
There will be other Directors who will make following movies - now they have the luxury to make a long movie about even just one chapter.
Dream Big.

PS: also, the first ages should be made Adults Only and make the audience right there in the battle against Orcs and wishing they weren't.
Hand to hand combat these days is almost non-existent. Instead - wars and battles are now 'detached' from looking the enemy in the eye.
The battle scenes must make the audience look those Orcs in the eye, like looking into the Abyss - and have the abyss (Orcs, the Eye) look back into YOU.

Well, I hope this helps and not too... long?

 

[Ent]

My dear @The Void - not too long at all.
And as for me, we are in agreement.
We Ents don't say anything unless it is worth taking a long time to say.
Such should be a presentation of Tolkien's work.

Having read as much now as I have, (which is still nowhere near 'all'), there isn't a bit of it that cannot be rightly conceptualized, developed, presented, and done well. (And dare I say, with great intensity, beauty and appropriate drama.)

 

[ZehnWaters]

To the title of the post:
I wouldn't be driving away the Tolkien Scholar we'd hired or conflating all criticism as being about racism and sexism.

 

[Annatar]

In any case, the two showrunners provide very many good examples of how not to do it.



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[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Good old Comic Book Guy! 😄

 

[Annatar]

Season 1:
Quick introduction to Valinor, First Age, and the battle when Morgoth is taken out. Introduction to main and side characters. Showing Numenor in it's beginning glory, and their friendship with the elves. Showing Noldors and Dwarfs in MIdle Earth and their amazing smithing skills.
Season 2 :
Numenor slowly begins to corrupt. People start asking themselves why they are not immortall? Elves froom Valinor warns them it would be best to just accept their fate and gift of Illuvatar. Back in M.E. Anatar shows himself, and start showing elven smiths amazing tips in forging. We bring more characters to brake down the monotony. We have (mortal) humans that we can change each season, and (immortal) elves that are main characters.
Season 3:
Numenor is even much more corrupted now. Elves stopped coming there. The great rings are forged in M.E., and elves realize that they were betrayed and that Anatar is Sauron. A great war erupts. Sauron have big war success. Yet, we are still in sort of stale position in the end of the season, but we can clearly see that elves are exhausted, while Sauron is stronger, and preparing to crush all middle earth.
Season 4:
Ar-Pharason is born, and we see his brutal way to become king. Hearing that Sauron proclaimed himself as a M.E. ruler, he goes berserk, he gather thousands of ship, and start sailing to middle earth. All Sauron forces flee, and Sauron (wisely) submit himself and agree to be prisoner. Quickly he becomes king advisor and convince king to attack Valinor to gain immortality. End of season - drawing of Numenor.
Season 5:
Handful of surviving Numenorians arrive at M.E. and with their previous fortifications (that Numenorians built before), they make Kingdoms of Arnor and Gondor. Sauron start attacking. All realize that they need to unite or they will all fall one by one. The last alliance is forged, and the end of the season is what we saw in intro of movies.

The idea that the Elves remain the actual main characters throughout all the seasons, while in each individual season, however, we look at a fixed point in time in the Second Age that is very important to the history, is also basically what I think makes the most sense. Even if the mortals would have to be replaced almost every season, I think that would still be the better solution than time compression.
It doesn't have to be exactly 5 seasons, but your division makes sense.

The focus of the whole series should be based on two philosophical themes:
1. The striving of the humans for immortality and everything negative that this brings with it, such as the ill will towards the Elves and the susceptibility to the seductions of Sauron. This theme need not be limited to Numenor, it can be similarly extended to the people of Rhun and Harad.
2. The striving of the Elves for the preservation of all that is beautiful and the stopping of the negative effects of time or transience. It has a certain similarity to the first theme or problem of the humans, only under different signs with the Elves: They themselves live eternally, but have to watch how, at least in Middle-earth, everything decays with time and everything beautiful and good fades away. This also makes them vulnerable to the temptations of Sauron, this time in the form of the whispers of Annatar.

In any case, in my opinion, these are the essential aspects of the Second Age. In the series these are extremely distorted and wrongly or only incidentally represented: The elves are suddenly no longer immortal and dependent on the drug mithril, while the humans are mainly worried about the elves taking their jobs. What a banalization and reversal of the actual themes. (I really find this extremely miserably implemented and it can't be made good in future seasons either).

To deepen the increasing depravity of the Numenorians even more, one could also focus on the topic of colonialism in addition to the mortality issue. For example, the differentiation of the native people into "Middle Men", who are recognized as distant relatives of the Numenorians, and on the other hand the blanket condemnation into "servants of Sauron", as it was for example wrongly the case with the Gwathuirim, whose homeland was then destroyed by forest clearings. Later nearly the complete society of Numenor was totally corrupted and might have established a very exploitative system on the coasts of Middle-earth including slavery etc., especially in the south at the colonies of the King's Men. Here one could also depict how the native peoples are subjugated by both sides. Once by the Numenorians, once by Sauron. Some then have to choose the seemingly lesser evil.

Other themes I can think of to introduce diversity true to the works on the one hand and to make the world larger on the other would also be a plot focusing on the Blue Wizards and their adventures or influence in Rhun. Here, a lot of fan fiction would be possible in the detailed elaboration, while from the works we know only two possible versions: Either they failed in the long run and founded their own cults or magical circles and thus pursued their own evil agenda similar to Saruman, or they were successful in the end and instigated many uprisings in the East against Sauron etc., so that Sauron could never use the full power of his Eastern subordinates in the fight against the West.

Finally, there remains the issue of the Ringwraiths. This too would certainly be very interesting, how Sauron binds certain human kings, mages, rulers, leaders etc. to himself by his tricks and lies and slowly but surely corrupts them. This would also create room for many interesting intrigue games.
For example, you could show how the Blue Wizards help a certain Easterling named Khamul to power, who was originally a freedom fighter and rallied many rebels around him and was also able to lead some good military strikes against Sauron's forces, but through Sauron's trickery later accepted one of the Nine Rings and therefore ultimately became a traitor etc.

 

[pippin le qer]

Hello my friends

Curios too see how would you conceptualize this series if you were hired as a main writer?
Just like a rough sketch.

I'd of course try to respect the lore, and here is my quick attempt:
Season 1:
Quick introduction to Valinor, First Age, and the battle when Morgoth is taken out. Introduction to main and side characters. Showing Numenor in it's beginning glory, and their friendship with the elves. Showing Noldors and Dwarfs in MIdle Earth and their amazing smithing skills.
Season 2 :
Numenor slowly begins to corrupt. People start asking themselves why they are not immortall? Elves froom Valinor warns them it would be best to just accept their fate and gift of Illuvatar. Back in M.E. Anatar shows himself, and start showing elven smiths amazing tips in forging. We bring more characters to brake down the monotony. We have (mortal) humans that we can change each season, and (immortal) elves that are main characters.
Season 3:
Numenor is even much more corrupted now. Elves stopped coming there. The great rings are forged in M.E., and elves realize that they were betrayed and that Anatar is Sauron. A great war erupts. Sauron have big war success. Yet, we are still in sort of stale position in the end of the season, but we can clearly see that elves are exhausted, while Sauron is stronger, and preparing to crush all middle earth.
Season 4:
Ar-Pharason is born, and we see his brutal way to become king. Hearing that Sauron proclaimed himself as a M.E. ruler, he goes berserk, he gather thousands of ship, and start sailing to middle earth. All Sauron forces flee, and Sauron (wisely) submit himself and agree to be prisoner. Quickly he becomes king advisor and convince king to attack Valinor to gain immortality. End of season - drawing of Numenor.
Season 5:
Handful of surviving Numenorians arrive at M.E. and with their previous fortifications (that Numenorians built before), they make Kingdoms of Arnor and Gondor. Sauron start attacking. All realize that they need to unite or they will all fall one by one. The last alliance is forged, and the end of the season is what we saw in intro of movies.
-----------------------
Few notes:

- The above is just a rough plan. Then, from there, I wouldn't mind any new invented character, invented event, twist or anything like it. As long as it in within these rough points everything is cool.
I would be very open to fresh idea. I intentionally didn't mentioned any character (with exception of Ar-Pharazon and Sauron), as I would give other writers freedom to experiment with various characters (new or old) whatever they want.

- I hear often that the series creator had to compress the timeline, because series is not the books.. etc.
I don't agree with that at all. I can understand for movies, but for the series, the way Tolkien wrote Second age is perfectly suited, and timeline and characters are perfectly match for the series format.
For example:
Every series need to have protagonist (and antagonist) that needs to be there through all seasons.
Great - we have elves and maias (still we can make some elves die)
Every series need to also change characters so they broke monotony.
Great - we have humans (and dwarfs).
Additionally,by making man changing from season to season, we outspokenly said about man mortality, and in season 3 and 4, it's perfectly understandable why are man so pissed about immortality (we, as a viewer are too, because we attached to some peoples from previous seasons).
---------------------

What do you think?

When you have the freedom to write a complete story of your own settled in the Tolkien world one could go for the history of the uncharted lands and people.
Create a rise and fall of Haradrim kingdoms, kingdoms ruled by great matriarchs slowly succumbing to the darkness of Sauron. The colonisation of the shores by the Numenoreans could be the trigger for a change in the kingdoms, they could have sent ambassadeurs in all directions for support and got only response from Sauron. That kind of stories would not conflict the canon of Tolkien allthrough it always stay fanon.
Same kind of process could be applied for the Easterlings. What drove them to the West?

Nice idea to have a freedom fighter named Khamul turning into a tyrant. Human history has afe exemples of those to dwell on.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

That kind of stories would not conflict the canon of Tolkien allthrough it always stay fanon.

Hate to say this, but from all that Tolkien has given us in a million ways to go off of, it would be practically impossible to write something based off his works that remained in canon. You could totally just go off on your own tangents, but to say that something would always stay canon is unlikely. Tolkien gave us SO much information about Middle-Earth, and I am very thankful. With all due respect and more, I think he could do better than all of us.

 

[d4rk3lf]

People, just to be clear...
The point of this thread is not how I would expand on the story that I conceptualized, but how would YOU conceptualize series, if you were chosen to be showrunners.
What I wrote in the first post, is just my rough sketch on how I would (probably) start, and was just a quick example on what I mean when I say concept.

 

[Tyelkormo the Fair]

I think I'd add a little bit of Sindar/Noldor political issues there after all the Kinslayings and show the rift it made between elves but I couldn't make it better than you

 

[Vardarianna]

Hello my friends

Curios too see how would you conceptualize this series if you were hired as a main writer?
Just like a rough sketch. What do you think?

I wrote up a big post on this the other day but stupidity and klutziness had me somehow close the browser and all was lost. So I attempt again.

What I would do is limit what is covered in a season. Season 1 was a bit erratic and scattered because they tried to introduce too many storylines. I'd have limited it to the Mordor/Numenor/Elves/Dwarves storylines and left the Harfoots out until later. Maybe use season 2 to concentrate on the Annatar/Celebrimbor/Elves of Middle Earth part of the story along with Numenor. Later in Season 4 I'd introduce the Harfoots and concentrate some on them as Numenor works toward its destruction. Personally, I'd leave out the wizards and the Star Wars masked desert creeps along with those freaks that were seeking Gandalf, but that is me.