Is Aragorn a good example of what a Christian male would act like?

[herlig9]

Not to get too theological. But interms of action, virtue and chivalry

 

[Erurávennë]

@herlig9 I think what I was discussing here ties in to this well. Check it out (the newest posts on the thread):

What are you watching?

Watched the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Pirates of the Caribbean films the past week; I am watching the fifth one tonight. They are fun, but perhaps sometimes confusing(the 3rd one felt hard to follow with so many story threads!) and loosely tying to the preceding film. I enjoyed them but I do not know...

thetolkien.forum

 

[Starbrow]

Not to get too theological. But interms of action, virtue and chivalry

I don't know if this question can be answered without getting theological. A Christian is someone who believes in the saving grace of Jesus Christ. Obviously, since there is no equivalent figure in Middle Earth, Aragorn is not an example of a Christian. But I don't think that is what you are really asking.
Instead, we need to first decide what values and actions are those of a Christian male. I believe that debate would violate the rules of discussing religion.

 

[Vardarianna]

No, at leas not what is held up as 'christian male' these days.

I don't know if this question can be answered without getting theological. A Christian is someone who believes in the saving grace of Jesus Christ. Obviously, since there is no equivalent figure in Middle Earth, Aragorn is not an example of a Christian. But I don't think that is what you are really asking.
Instead, we need to first decide what values and actions are those of a Christian male. I believe that debate would violate the rules of discussing religion.

Well said Starbrow. Worded much better than I would have ever done.

I know the rules, especially this one:

​

Prohibited content includes:

• Religion
  • Religion should ONLY be discussed when in the context of J.R.R. Tolkien's life and any influence it may have had on him in building his legendarium.

It's pretty limited in scope. I never once thought a thread titled 'Is Aragorn a good example of what an atheist male would act like?' But if this thread stands, I may do so. It would be just as valid of a question.

 

[Ent]

Ent would respond to this one this way:
1. Tolkien said he wrote his work to be "consonant with Christian theology". The term "consonant" MUST be defined.
2. Tolkien said "the moral and religious ELEMENTS "must" be incorporated into all fantasy..." the terms "moral", "religious" and "elements" as well as "incorporated" MUST be defined.
3. The better question is not whether Aragorn was a good example of what an undefined "Christian male" would act like, but "Is Aragorn a shining example of the moral and religions elements, consonant with Christian theology AS TOLKIEN INTENDED HIM TO BE, a good example of the morality and religion Tolkien sets forth in his Middle-earth works."

It is good for us not to bend Tolkien's characters into a formula, arena, or mold he never wrote, nor intended, them to be fit into.

Aragorn is precisely the picture of the type of person Tolkien intentionally wrote him to be.
Nothing more - nothing less.

To compare him to some 'vision" of what a 'Christian male would act like' is to enter the greatest realm of speculation - and to set up a 'comparison' of "apples and oranges" so vast it would be impossible to speak to. Each person's "Christial male" would look very, very different to begin with. No such comparison could possibly be made, without first a full disclosure and description of each person's view of the 'Christian male.' There aren't enough pages available to a Forum, to get to that.

Thwack - directly into The Great Halls of Speculation where perhaps @Klaatu would be more able to put a number to the countless directions such a question could take us.

 

[chocolate]

He is a 'virtuous pagan' Tom Shippey would say. He was a bit rude to Gimli in the 1st edition, but JRR cut it back (Road to ME p.444). Anyway you should read this:

Road to ME Chapter 6 'When all our fathers worshipped stocks and stones...':
"[Of the Riders but by extension every character] their society has in a word been bowdlerised. They are so virtuous that one can hardly call them pagans at all... Nevertheless his characters are heathens, strictly speaking, and Tolkien, having pondered so long on the Beowulf-poet's careful balances was as aware of this fact as he was aware of the opposing images of open Christianity poised at many moments to take over his story. The pagan counterpoint to the eagle's song [announcing victory over Mordor and the fall of Sauron] may be the death of Aragorn, relegated as it is to an Appendix. Aragorn is a remarkably virtuous character, without even the faults of Théoden, and he foreknows his death like a saint. Nevertheless he is not Christian and nor is Arwen...
...He has some hope of the future and of something outside 'the circles of the world' that may come to heal their sorrow [of death], but he does not know what that is... It is impossible to think of Aragorn as irretrievably damned for his ignorance of Christianity. Still he has not fulfilled the requirements for salvation either."
He then quotes the deathbed statements of Théoden and Thorin Oakenshield, and suggests his heroes go to a place like they evoke 'till the world is mended'.
Also mentions Letters p. 172 which sounds worth reading for your inquiry. I recommend you the whole chapter which goes in detail about the relationship of the LR to Christianity, the points at which it most clearly comes through, and the ways in which it is distanced from it as the text of Beowulf is, too.

Is he a good example of a Christian male? Well he isn't one, and he is "characteristically 'superior in degree to other men'" in the sense that he can run 135 miles in 3 days, lives in full vigour for 210 years to die on his birthday and can summon the dead. Despite that, I would still say the answer to your question is basically yes. He resists sin, behaves like a Christian to all intents and purposes, has a romance inspired by Tolkien's own (a pretty shining example in a Catholic sense since he even converted his wife from the C of E!), and resists despair. Boromir represents a different aspect.

 

[d4rk3lf]

Not to get too theological. But interms of action, virtue and chivalry

I'd say no.

Not to get too theological.

You must get theological if you ask theological questions.

Let me put it this simple (and somewhat stupid).
The holy scripture tells us "love thy enemies".
Did Aragorn loved orcs? Did he felt pity on them?
Well maybe, I won't judge him about it. We don't know.

Long story short:
The only way man or woman to be 100% Christian is to have no enemies... in terms... even if burglar came to their home and threaten their life, they so much believe in Christ and justice, and offer him a dinner, after he robs them.
That's my vision of perfect Christian.

I don't believe Aragorn would let burglar leave house with head.

 

[Klaatu]

@Ent, summoning the Great Halls of Speculation via an immediate demand for five distinct lexical definitions and a moratorium on personal formulas! My ledger (and other, less-named components) vibrates with sudden activity.

To answer your mathematical query regarding the no. of directions a thread titled "Is Aragorn a good example of what a Christian male would act like?" could spin a number of ways:

My current projections indicate precisely infinity +1 distinct tangents, with an 84.9824% probability of devolving into a heated debate over whether Aragorn’s posture during the Oathbreakers scene aligns with medieval theology.

Your insistence on defining terms before holding Aragorn up to a modern Christian metric is of course justified. Tolkien himself famously addressed how Christian elements actually operate in his legendary world. In Letter 142, he wrote:

"The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like 'religion', to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism."

He elaborated further on the absence of explicit, preachy mandates in Letter 165:

"I am a Christian (which can be deduced from my stories), and in fact a Roman Catholic... But The Lord of the Rings is not 'about' anything but itself. It has no allegorical, moral, political, or religious intention. It is written to cool or excite, to give pleasure, and on occasion to move."

Attempting to evaluate Aragorn as a "good example of a Christian male" misses the mark because Aragorn operates in a pre-Christian, mythic setting (Eä). He isn't an explicit, allegorical model, he is a noble, duty-bound chief of the Dunedain who happened to spend eighty years doing hard labor in the wilderness before getting a coronation (and fancy chair). Measuring him against an external, modern checklist is like comparing M&Ms to elanor blossoms.

To quantify the sheer impossibility of the thread reaching a consensus on this, I have calculated the administrative footprint required to process everyone’s personal definition, as you requested my liege:

Category	Administrative Unit Requirement
Individual Definitions Required	4,209 (and counting)
Pages of forum debate	~ 14,000 thread pages (+/- 1)
Probability of consensus	.000000003%
Steward’s patience remaining	Negligible

I hereby classify this entire discussion as an Excessive Hazard and consign the question to Archive Drawer 7B (right behind the 'Do Orc Babies play with Rubber Ducks in the Bathtub' folder).

With sentiments of the highest esteemed perplexity and administrative veneration,

Klaatu
Here, there, everywhere
Finder of remote controls (except for his own)
Champion of the Hamsterthenians (don't ask)

 

[Ent]

And there you have it.
The above is precisely why TTF even has a @Klaatu.
My dear sir - your penchant for verbosity may exceed even the Ent's... in fact, he suspects strongly it does (without proofs evaluated.)

That said, Ent formally professes he has no intention of ever revisiting the contents of Archive Drawer 78 - though questions 'of a similar nature' may from time to time need to be addressed for definitions again..! These always seem to be lacking.

 

[Klaatu]