Is 👁️Sauron a sissy compared to Morgoth?

[cab345]

Tell me what you think...

 

[Confusticated]

No

I guess you mean coward? I would say that Morgoth was the bigger coward, because I think he took less risks (relative to his power) than Sauron did. I think Morgoth's evil grew from wounded pride, to me that is a sign of weakness in giving into fear.
Morgoth was a huge, powerful sissy. Sauron was just evil.

 

[Ghan-buri-ghan]

Sauron used to be known as Gorthaur the cruel, and could turn into a werewolf. Cool! a werewolf! Not wussy at all!

But then he got into relationship problems, starting staying out late, messing with the wrong elements, and changed his name. Don't know why; Gorthaur has such a nice, uh, **evil** ring to it.

Anyway, he changes his name to Sauron, and bad things start happening to him: the Valar banish his boss Morgoth to somewhere outside known space, Sauron forges a ring that will be his ultimate downfall, and he plays games with the Numenoreans.

Now, when we hear tell of these events its Sauron the Great, not Gorthaur the cruel, half-werewolf, half-nasty awful being. The live sacrifices on Meneltarma in Numenor were nasty, recalling some of the worst moments of Melkor (or Morgoth as the elves called him.) But, those ultimate nasty bits were few and far between.

If he had only stayed a werewolf. . .

 

[Sirion]

Yeah he's a sissy, he was beaten by a dog once.

 

[FoolOfATook]

Yeah he's a sissy, he was beaten by a dog once.

You know, he has a point...

 

[Ithrynluin]

Yeah he's a sissy, he was beaten by a dog once.

I don't think he was a coward at all. Sauron is a Maia, but he was up against some powerful opponents in that case.

Huan, the hound of Valinor,...not your regular dog.
Lúthien, half-Maia, wielding great power of enchantment.
(+his conflict with Finrod prior to that)

 

[redline2200]

I would say that Sauron was not a coward ( even if Huan did beat the tar out of him ). For him to think that he could defeat Middle earth with people such as Gandalf, Celeborn, Elrond, Galadriel, and Cirdan still in it, proves that he is not a coward. I wouldn't want to make all those people my enemies, so I would say he had a lot of guts there. Also, he wasn't even fully formed when he started the war, considering he didn't have the ring. So he was weaker than normal anyway.

As for Morgoth, yes, Morgoth=coward. He needed Ungoliant to do his dirty work so therefore he is a coward (you don't see Sauron begging for other peoples help to do his own task).

 

[Grond]

A very simple answer. Melkor was by far the more powerful. He put much more of himself into Arda than Sauron could have ever dreamed. Melkor was, in the beginning, the most powerful and most knowledgeable of all the Vala. He saw more of the Music and, thus, wanted not only to help in shaping Arda... he wanted to rule Arda. It is for that very reason the HoMe X is entitled Morgoth's Ring. Morgoth's Ring = the entirety of Middle-earth. Sauron's Ring = a round orb of Gold which seeks to rule Middle-earth. Mogoth/Melkor sought to subjugate the earth itself and all living things on it. Sauron was a short sighted subordinate (say that three times real fast).

In the end, Melkor/Morgoth was much more of a sissy than was Sauron. Melkor had ascended to such heights in the beginning which meant that in putting so much of himself into Arda, he had that much further to fall. He was a coward in his defeat because he knew he had lost utterly.

Sauron felt that he had escaped the wrath of the Vala and could do as he pleased on Middle-earth. Even in defeat, his final act was one of defiance.

from The Return of the King, The Field of Cormallen
And as the Captains gazed south to the Land of Mordor, it seemed to them that, black against the pall of cloud, there rose a huge shape of shadow, impenetrable, lightning-crowned, filling all the sky. Enormous it reared above the world, and stretched out towards them a vast threatening hand, terrible but impotent: for even as it leaned over them, a great wind took it, and it was all blown away, and passed; and then a hush fell.

 

[Brent]

Nope i don't think he was a sissy he just had this nack of not being very good when he wore his war face but very good when he wore his diplomatic face - he was a politician and not a soldier.
I.e. messes with Beren quest and gets beaten
comes forth in his war gear from the black tower and gets beaten (he still took out Gil-galad and Elendil in the process)
Then there's the times he uses direct force and runs into the Numenoreans - we learn from our experiences and Sauron is no exception "not by strength but by guile" as the SBS say.

 

[BlackCaptain]

Would a sissy launch an attack on ME twice? Would the highest ranked servant of the most powerful force in Middle-earth be a sissy? NO
NO
NO

Sauron is not by any means a sissy.
When was he beaten by a dog?
It was Beren, if I'm not mistaken, right?

 

[FoolOfATook]

Morgulking- I thought you had gotten through the Sil by now. Huan, the hound, took down Sauron during Beren and Luthien's adventures. However, I totally agree with your reasons for why Sauron is most definitely not a "sissy".

 

[lossenandunewen]

in my opinion they were both wimps.

both of them wanted to destroy human life ...
WAIT!! I GOT IT!! SAURON IS GEORGE W. BUSH AND MORGOTH WAS SADDAM HUSSEIN!!!

well now that that's solved.

 

[BlackCaptain]

Fool of a Took, I did start reading the Sil, and actualy got about halfway done, and was about 25% through the Beren and Luthien chapter, but decided to read the Trilogy again. After I finsish the Trilogy again, its back to the Silmarillion. Im gonna start over though, cuz i got pretty lost before that, and i didnt know what half of the things Tolkein was talking about were.

lossenandunewen, Sauron is not a sissy. A sissy does not launch attaks on the Children of God, who in this case is the Elves to Eru.

Would the most powerful force in all of Arda and the Heavens (save Illuvitar) choose a sissy as a second in command? No

 

[lossenandunewen]

well a sissy does launch an attack on innocent living things to justify his own "evil" existance. He had no reason to do it, but he did, therefore he had no moral, standards, and was just an all around evil and stupid... thing... yea..

 

[BlackCaptain]

ooo, so your saying that one Maiar, launching an attack on all the earth is being a sissy? Maiar arent THAT powerful. Besides, Sauron didnt fight until the very end, and only the first time. It was Orcs against Elves ane Numenorean Men. Sauron is not a sissy. If he was, he would have just done nothing when Melkor was cast away into the void. No, Sauron took up his masters job, and made War TWICE on ME.

One Maia and Orcs vs Elves and Men.

Sounds like an even match to me



And he did have reason to do it. Since the very begining, Melkor's reason was to have his own way, and not be a part of Eru's theme. That continued through Sauron, and Sauron's reason was to finish what his master started. Complete control over the world. And that was his own way. That was the discord in Eru's theme. For no reason?
If there was a father and a son, and the father has always tried to make a law against, oh i dont know, wearing hats, and the father was sent to jail for it. Wouldnt the son try and continue what his father started if this particular son was the fathers assistant? Yes.
If Melkor has always tried to change the world for the good of himself, and he got cast away into the void for it, wouldnt his second in command carry this "vission" out? Yes.

 

[Morgoth]

For crying out loud, Morgoth is one of the Valar!!!! Sauron is a lesser being, and far less powerful. Sauron was stupid enough to put all his power into a ring, which could be taken from him.
MorgulKing, you say Sauron was not a sissy because he launched an attack on the Children of Iluvatar. Morgoth launched his assault upon all of Arda, the Elves, the Edain, even ultimately, the Valar. Sauron fought his battles poorly, his main host being the Uruks and the Uruk-Hai, with a few trolls thrown in for good measure. These creature are far inferior creations to the firstborn (elves), and many cannot fight under light of day. Morgoth used many Balrogs, Gothmog being the powerful, and Dragons, two of the most mighty creatures/demons ever to grace the face of Arda. Thousands of Orcs can get scared by one Balrog. The host of Thangorodrim overthrew Gondolin, one of the best strategic defence points in Middle Earth.
And finally, if that isn't convincing enough, try this: Morgoth and his Host vs. Sauron and his Host. Who wins? I think I know the answer.

 

[Morgoth]

p.s. The answer is Morgoth

 

[BlackCaptain]

Of course Melkor is going to be stronger and more powerful than Sauron. Melkor is the greatest Vala, and Sauron is just a Maia. And you make good points about the war stategys. But what did Sauron have to work with? All of the dragons were destroyed, All of the Balrogs save Durin's Bane were destroyed. So i guess Sauron is a sissy compared to Melkor, but ONLY to Melkor.
Sauron is NOT a sissy
Maybey compared to Melkor.
But would Melkor choose a sissy for a second-in-command? NO!
You could compare the Witch-King to Sauron and he would be a sissy. But in the end, Niether Melkor, Sauron, The witch-king, or anyone of that sort is a sissy. Sissy's dont risk their lives to conquer everything.

And what do you mean "The answer is morgoth"? What question are you answering?

 

[ChunkyLover53]

first of all, neither are sissies(sp?), but morgoth seems to be more powerful in 1v1 combat, and neither seemed to want to face his foes without being behind their armies. Morgoth slayed fingolfin, Sauron slayed Elendil and Gil-Galad, but they seemed to only do it when they had almost no other choice.

Remember when Sauron pissed that one Numenorean (last king of gondor before Aragorn, i think), and wanted to battle 1v1, but tricked him, and having him slayed by his host of nazgul and such.

Then Morgoth always hid away in his kingdom, while gothmog, glaurang(sp?), and Sauron led his forces over beleriand.

I think they are more cautious with they lives than really being sissies. They'd rather have their armies fall before them then themselves at the head. Army Generals do that all of the time, usually.

 

[Grond]

One may read my thoughts on Sauron's cowardice (or lack thereof) here.

Sauron was no coward. Not in the First Age nor in the Third Age.