Is 👁️Sauron a sissy compared to Morgoth?

[ChunkyLover53]

I think you and I are kinda on the same page on Sauron, but said it better, and I think Melkor is similar to Sauron's "cunningness" (sp? word? lol), which is why he was second command to Melkor.

 

[balrog]

Originally posted by cab345
Tell me what you think...

yes!

 

[Grond]

Re: Re: Is sauron a sissy compared to Morgoth?

Originally posted by balrog
yes!

Valar storm Utumno and where is Melkor? Hiding in the bottom of the caves. What does he do when captured? Begs for mercy.

Melkor is a scheming patsy, a fearful and jealous usurper of the world. He always has his own minions handle the courageous work. He hides and directs and hopes things work out well for him.

Sauron conives a way to keep Eonwe from taking him prisoner to Valinor. He wanders Middle-earth to get a feel for where he can establish a domain from where he can rule it all. He personally treats and teaches with the Noldor of Eregion, deceitfully weaving his web of evil through his teachings in Ring making. When he is discovered and his plans concerning control of the Rings fail, Sauron personally leads his army into Ost-in-Edhil and destroys the entire community. He tortures the locations of all the nine and the seven from Celebrimbor. He then personally carries the battle Northward and Westward enveloping almost the entirety of Middle-earth under his sway. He lays siege to Elrond in Imladris and Gil-galad in the Grey Havens. But for the coming of the first Numenorean fleet, Sauron would have been the ruler of all the land from the Sea to the East.

He sees a better way to woo the Numenoreans than outright battle so he connives his way into their trust. He allows himself to be taken captive so he can put his master plan into effect. He knows that the Valar will destroy any mortal who sets foot on Valinor. He convinces Ar-Pharazon that he is powerful enough to wrest immortality from them.

His spirit escapes to Middle-earth where he discovers he is again confronted with the faithful of Numenor who have established kingdoms across Middle-earth in both the East and the North. He declares open war upon the People of Gondor and the Last Alliance if formed. In the end, Sauron again confronts his enemies face to face and kills both of them but is also vanquished in the fight.

Melkor fought hand to hand twice in all of his existence. Once at the cowardly slaying of Finwe when he stole the Silmarils and again at his own Gates when Fingolfin gave his challenge which could not be denied.

Melkor = chicken.
Sauron = defiant to the end.

 

[Beleg]

Re: Re: Re: Is sauron a sissy compared to Morgoth?

Melkor = chicken.

Sauron = defiant to the end

Lol, but sadly for the first and hopefully not the last time, i am in total agreement with someone.

 

[Morgoth]

Morgoth is NOT a chicken. When there were smaller, not as threatening battles, he saw it useless to have his presence on the battlefield. But when it came to the final battle, he fought until the bitter end.

 

[LordGollum8]

Sauron was not a sissy but he was once just a servant of Morgoth. So he started out with less power and evil. He once was in the form of a normal man until he was destroyed on a numenorean ship heading for the undying lands. His evil was so great his spirit fled back to middle earth and could no longer take on an appereance that men thought fair. Before he was "killed" he was friends with the elves and taught them to forge rings. them he tried to forge one to control theirs.

 

[olorin the maia]

whoops, back up just a bit. Sauron was left behind in Numenor when the Edain sailed West to make war on the Valar. He was caught in the destruction of his own temple when the island foundered in the waves. The rest of what you say is correct.

 

[Morgoth]

Exactly. At the height of his power, Morgoth could have held back the waves.

 

[e.Blackstar]

Sauron, the wimp!

What do you think of Sauron? I mean, he was foolish enough to put nearly all of his lifeblood into a physical object that could be destroyed by anyone. He was beaten by a HOBBIT!

On the other hand, the Ring had an enormous pull on people so it would not be destroyed so easily. Also, he bought himself some insurance because if he was 'killed' he would live on in the Ring.

What do you think?

 

[YayGollum]

Yikes! Well, I don't think he was a wimp! Maybe a little too confident with his creepy abilities.

 

[BlackCaptain]

I remeber a HUGE thread earlier about this. Or was it somewhere else?... Oh well... I myself don't think he was foolish. I mean, he never had a chance of loosing it unless his entire fortress was laid under seige and he was forced to come out. And he wouldn't have any hope in winning the war then, so why would he even need his Ring? It could only make him stronger. Of course in the long run though, it turned out to be a very bad desicion, but it was a masterful and prudent descision at the time, and he had NO way of knowing that a Stoor would get the Ring.

 

[Gandalf White]

Also remember that his mind could only understand others the way he thought. In his mind destroying the Ring was not an option, he thought anyone who had it would want to use it, and so was never prepared.

A wimp? A most emphatic "no" to that.

Remember too that the Ring was destroyed by what seemed mere chance. (It was Fate, however.) Frodo couldn't do it and so Gollum came into play. "Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

Personally I think the Ring was a very good idea.

 

[BlackCaptain]

Yes, making the Ring was a good idea, but being naive enough to think no one would destroy it was an egotistical and bad descision.

 

[YayGollum]

Why's that? It had that cool self defense thing. I guess he thought that'd be enough. What else would you toss in to make it foolproof?

 

[Gandalf White]

I don't know if naive is the right word here. Perhaps blinded. In his perverted mind he couldn't see anyone wanting to destroy the Ring.

Also, he no doubt knew of the possessive power the Ring held over it's owners. There is no way anyone could cast it into Mount Doom of his own accord. Events had to transpire very, very closely to what happened in the book in order for It to be destroyed.

 

[e.Blackstar]

Perhaps I should have restated that. I do not think Sauron was a wimp. No way! i merely wanted to provoke debate.

 

[Gandalf White]

!

After reading your post people should realize you don't think Sauron was a wimp.

It's just a misleading title to draw people into the thread! (Or, as you said, to prompt debate.)

 

[elf boy]

I think it's a tie between them, I forget where but somewhere in the Sil it says that the only reason Sauron was less... urm.. evil than Morgoth was because Sauron worked for Morgoth.

 

[Inderjit S]

Compared to Melkor he was a sissy yes. But Morgoth? No. Melkor was a far greater power, but as M.T describes his power had greatly fallen due to him exerting so much power into the substance of Arda/his servants. By the end of the F.A Tolkien comments;

Sauron was 'greater' effectively in the Second Age then Morgoth at the end of the first....

M.T; HoME 12