Is Turgon related to Thingol?

[Idril Celebrindal]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the Silmarillion mentions Thingol and Turgon as being brothers? However, when I look at family trees they seem to be related only by the marriage of Elwing and Earendil, so I'm not really sure what to think...

 

[Maedhros_Nelyafinwë]

No, they were not brothers. Turgon was a son of Fingolfin and Anairë, whose only other children were Fingon, Aredhel and Argon. Thingol isn't related at all. Thingol is the first king of the Sindar Elves, and one of the first Teleri, so he isn't even the same race as Turgon.

 

[Server Room Gremlin]

Elwë Singollo (Elu Thingol in Sindarin) was the brother of Olwë, the king of the Teleri in Valinor. Thingol stayed behind in Middle-earth and became the king of Doriath.

Olwë

Olwë was one of the two kings of the Teleri, the other being his elder brother Elwë, Lord of Beleriand. As the prince of Alqualondë, he ruled the Teleri of Valinor...

tolkiengateway.net

Thingol was the tallest of all the Elves, and Turgon was also noted as being very tall. However, they are not related.

 

[Olorgando]

Finarfin's children Finrod, Orodreth, Angrod, Aegnor, and Galadriel were related to Thingol through their mother Eärwen, daughter of Olwë, Thingol's brother.

 

[Elthir]

Finarfin's children Finrod, Orodreth, Angrod, Aegnor, and Galadriel were related to Thingol through their mother Eärwen, daughter of Olwë, Thingol's brother.

I wasn't going to do this 'cause it's very annyoing of me.

But then I did.

 

[Olorgando]

I wasn't going to do this 'cause it's very annyoing of me.
But then I did.

Most of the time when you're annoying, you're right.
What happened this time ... skipped a nap? 🤔

 

[Elthir]

Do you mean I'm un-right? Wasn't Orodreth moved down a generation according to JRRT's "final" family tree?

But more importantly: skip a nap? Is that even possible?

 

[Olorgando]

Do you mean I'm un-right? Wasn't Orodreth moved down a generation according to JRRT's "final" family tree?

What I recall is that Finrod used to be the name of Fingolfin's younger brother, one of whose sons was named Felagund. The introduction of Finarfin (spelled Finarphin early on) postdates the first edition of LotR, with Finrod moving down a generation while retaining his "epithet" Felagund. It all had to do with JRRT needing to sandwich in Galadriel somewhere in is First Age mythology, where she had not existed prior to LotR.

 

[Elthir]

What I recall is that Finrod used to be the name of Fingolfin's younger brother, one of whose sons was named Felagund.

Yep, that's the name-switch Inglor Felagund to Finrod Felagund -- but anyway, I was referring to Orodreth becoming Angrod's son instead of his brother, as found in The Shibboleth of Feanor for example, and Tolkien's latest family tree (where it concerns this matter).

The introduction of Finarfin (spelled Finarphin early on) postdates the first edition of LotR, with Finrod moving down a generation while retaining his "epithet" Felagund. It all had to do with JRRT needing to sandwich in Galadriel somewhere in is First Age mythology, where she had not existed prior to LotR.

The name switch appears to be based on Tolkien's concern (see Words, Phrases and Passages, published in Parma Eldalamberon 17) that the character "Finrod" should not have a Sindarin or Sindarized name, as he hadn't left Aman -- and ultimately JRRT gave the name to "Inglor" (only called Felagund in print so far). Back to WPP, at one point Tolkien gave the former "Finrod" the Quenya name Arafinwe Ingalaure.

actually it's a bit more complicated than that, but for sake of brevity here

Tolkien then notes (still WPP) some Sindarized forms, writing "Feanor, Ingolfin and Inglor (but this not actually applied to Arafinwe who never came to Beleriand)." Tolkien then notes how the name Ingolfin arose, but adds a very interesting remark here:

"[If Fingolfin is used at all this must be for Finwe-nolofinwe]"

AHA! This little extra bit starting with "if" basically turned out to be the scenario as described in the later text The Shibboleth of Feanor -- ahem, cough -- where Tolkien explains that Sindarin Finarfin is similarly from Finwe Arafinwe, and he explains why Finarfin, even though he remained in Aman, received a Sindarized name!

Basically, between editions of The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien is thinking about revising certain names in his mythology, and thinks that "Finrod" should not have a Sindarized name 'cause he stayed in Aman -- then, later, "he" [Finrod] ends up with a Sindarized name anyway: Finarfin!

Or something betterly worded by me!

🐾