LGBT in Middle-earth?

[WaitingCynicism]

I am getting ready to run a tabletop campaign in Middle-earth. I want to make my table as inclusive as possible, but at the same time I don't know enough about LGBT in middle Earth in general. Would it have been a crime or seen as wrong?

 

[Rána]

Tolkien strikes me as an individual who existed within his era pretty well. I don't think he spent too much time considering the topic (I'm aware that it's folly to assume to get into the head of the man, but I think the burden of proof is on the other side of this one).

That said, I have been interested to see if anyone has taken on the subject. I'm not L, G, B, or T so I don't think I can offer a whole lot toward the perspective.

 

[WaitingCynicism]

I am gay myself, but I'm not sure if anyone has - I've heard some stuff on both sides really.

 

[CirdanLinweilin]

From what I can tell, I don't think it even nor ever existed! It mostly, if not completely exists within fan-fiction. As Rána has said, Tolkien existed within his era pretty well. He was also a devout Roman Catholic. Furthermore, there's such scant information on it within the legendarium to the point it's nonexistent. This presents an opportunity for creative license. So, I would guess you have a lot of wiggle room.


I hope this is not taken the wrong way, my job here is only to inform. Considering this, you could have a lot of license with this campaign, if this is something you'd like to incorporate. It may not exist within the published works, but it could work within your campaign, if that is what you want with it.


I hope this helps. Let me know if you need further discussion.


CL

 

[WaitingCynicism]

But part of the reason why it wasn't mentioned was because the books would have been deemed obscene and wouldn't have been able to be published.

 

[CirdanLinweilin]

But part of the reason why it wasn't mentioned was because the books would have been deemed obscene and wouldn't have been able to be published.

I do not claim to know the author's mind, especially since he's long past, but I do believe, considering the man, it was something he never envisioned within his work. I think it stems from the author's personal views and beliefs. He was a devout Catholic, so a lot of it comes from that. Tolkien was a very traditional man. Again, considering such scant information on the subject, this gives you creative license to present such situations within the campaign, as you see fit.

Again, I hope this is not taken the wrong way. I am not meaning to be confrontational nor judgmental nor argumentative. I just want to continue an interesting discussion on Tolkien and his work, and be informative as possible. (I don't think I have run into a uninteresting Tolkien discussion.)

By the way, I've forgotten my manners, (How Dreadful!)

Welcome to the Forum!


CL

 

[WaitingCynicism]

True, I'm not trying to start an argument or anything. And thanks for the welcome!

 

[CirdanLinweilin]

And thanks for the welcome!

You're welcome!


I hope you enjoy your time here!



CL

 

[Rána]

Furthermore, there's such scant information on it within the legendarium to the point it's nonexistent. This presents an opportunity for creative license. So, I would guess you have a lot of wiggle room.

Again, considering such scant information on the subject, this gives you creative license to present such situations within the campaign, as you see fit.

That hits some pretty key points in what I've taken from these forums so far. We're all trying to piece together a canon from the material, but there's so much grey-area that it becomes really difficult to draw the hard lines. That's why I like the forums, for discourse and opinions and the hope that we can figure out something together. I almost feel like there's a call to action for everyone to come together and attempt to fill in the in-between areas that exist all over the legendarium.

One of the main things that drew me into the writing of Tolkien was the respect for free-will and the right for an individual to carve their own destiny. I also believe that people should connect to the work in whatever way is significant to them. Art is the interpretation of an audience. Two separate and completely different people can observe a work of art and connect to it for completely different reasons... yet in that moment, the two are connected to each-other as well as the artist; in spite of the experiences that each person taps into as they connect to the work. Isn't that one of the key reasons people make art?

 

[CirdanLinweilin]

Isn't that one of the key reasons people make art?

Indeed.


CL

 

[Rána]

Although... now that I'm thinking about it... I'm super curious to know what you mean from a table-top campaign point of view. I have to be honest, I've never played a campaign so, my scope is also limited on that point. I just don't know how it would affect the game play.

If I'm trying to take a stark approach, I would say that within Middle-earth some communities would see it as wrong. However, I wouldn't be willing at all to say that it's a crime anywhere and I would be very interested to see the text that someone can offer up as an outright condemnation.

 

[WaitingCynicism]

So, if you are familiar with Dungeons and Dragons, its an adaptation for the newest edition - essentially the players get quests and go on adventures, but can wind up in other towns. Watch some of the stuff on youtube or twitch, that should help give an idea. I can understand that some would think it wrong, but I'm not sure which communities would - maybe the dwarves?

 

[Rána]

All things considered, I'm of a mind to say that you should just incorporate it into the story as not-unusual. Unless you specifically want to use it as a device for conflict and story development.

 

[WaitingCynicism]

Alright, I will do that. Thanks

 

[Rána]

There's a larger perspective of the individual groups inside Middle-earth. All of the singular communities are separated, and integrated, from one another to varying degrees.

The Hobbits of the Shire are extremely closed-off communities. They consider Hobbits from other regions of the Shire to be strange and potentially untrustworthy. Bree is a place where Men, Hobbits, Dwarves, even the occasional Wizard or rumored Elf, mix pretty freely. Sometimes in some places Dwarves and Elves have fought, or traded openly with friendship.

I don't know how you go about defining cultural norms across the board.