Lord of the Rings on Prime Updates (Thanks Varking!)

[HALETH✒🗡]

"Ecran".

I see. In Russian the word for "screen" is quite similar.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Ahah, so I see, on looking it up. Though of course in French, the final "N" ("H") would be very nasal; English speakers-- and Russian speakers too, I imagine-- would consider it "silent".


OK, enough linguistics-- back to arguing about Amazon! 😆

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

I'm guessing Theo is one of the "Harfoots"?

(Or would it be "Harfeet"? 🤔)

 

[Ealdwyn]

Ah yes, Theo and Bronwyn, those well known characters from ...er ...... 🤔

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

. . .the same realm as Tauriel? 😉

 

[Annatar]

. . .the same realm as Tauriel? 😉

Yes, it's all nonsense.
I'm not a fan of those Peter Jackson films, but I don't think we should set the absurdities of the various film adaptations against each other, because they have all been less than optimal so far. (And even if we did, PJ would do better in most cases, which is bad enough).

The naming of some RoP fanfic characters does bother me a bit:
- Carine: How is that even supposed to be pronounced? It makes the least sense so far, especially since it's a Numenorean name of the Faithful (so it should be Quenya).
- The hobbit girl Elanor Brandyfoot: Elanor is elvish and the name of a flower that the hobbits don't know until the 3rd Age. So is the Brandywine river. So it's an anachronism that sounds Tolkien-affine, but actually makes no sense story-wise.
- Bronwyn from Tirharad: The name is rather Celtic, but at least it sounds a bit like a Rohirrim name. Tirharad is Sindarin and means something like guard of the south or southern guard post. So it sounds more like a country that is much more southern than Rohan, but who knows...
- And now Bronwyn's son Theo, who also has a more oriental complexion and therefore doesn't fit with the Rohirrim: Sounds very much like a real name, but also brings back memories of Rohan names like Theoden (which, however, come from Old English). It wouldn't fit to a rather southern setting. Rohan did not exist in the 2nd age and the ancestors of the Rohirrim lived in the north.

Since Tolkien placed extreme importance on languages and names, one has to wonder if Amazon really consulted good experts in this regard.

Here, someone who, unlike me, is still rather optimistic about the series so far, has made a video on the naming issues:

 

[Annatar]

OK, enough linguistics

Oh yeah, I'm really sorry it's back to linguistics now, but you better complain to Amazon. 😜

By the way, what else stands out: Another broken sword???

Unfortunately, this picture looks so much like "Wheel of Time", and that's not a good omen at all.

 

[Annatar]

Ah yes, Theo and Bronwyn, those well known characters from ...er ...... 🤔

I wouldn't really have a problem with fictional characters that you don't know from the books. A film adaptation of the Second Age would actually offer good opportunities for this. But if you're going to do that, then please do it properly. And so far it all looks more like generic fantasy. It could be part of the Shannara or WoT or Witcher adaptation or whatever, but it's not reminiscent of Middle Earth. You get the impression that they just bought the naming rights to attract more people, while the authors don't have a clue about Tolkien's works. It seems to me that they only saw PJ's movies and thought: "well, okay, but not diverse and feminist enough, we can modernize it and do it better! So let's put in a single mother who has a forbidden relationship with a black man... Now let's celebrate ourselves for being so progressive."

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Or: "Let's add characters that will bring more eyeballs!" (read -- "money").

 

[CirdanLinweilin]

Or: "Let's add characters that will bring more eyeballs!" (read -- "money").

That's literally what happened in the pitch meeting for this.

CL

 

[CirdanLinweilin]

I wouldn't really have a problem with fictional characters that you don't know from the books. A film adaptation of the Second Age would actually offer good opportunities for this. But if you're going to do that, then please do it properly. And so far it all looks more like generic fantasy. It could be part of the Shannara or WoT or Witcher adaptation or whatever, but it's not reminiscent of Middle Earth. You get the impression that they just bought the naming rights to attract more people, while the authors don't have a clue about Tolkien's works. It seems to me that they only saw PJ's movies and thought: "well, okay, but not diverse and feminist enough, we can modernize it and do it better! So let's put in a single mother who has a forbidden relationship with a black man... Now let's celebrate ourselves for being so progressive."

Preach.

It's almost as if Tolkien knew what a prehistoric Europe would look like

CL

 

[HALETH✒🗡]

Or: "Let's add characters that will bring more eyeballs!" (read -- "money").

Read – "gold".

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Or duck.

 

[Ealdwyn]

You get the impression that they just bought the naming rights to attract more people, while the authors don't have a clue about Tolkien's works.

Exactly

 

[Annatar]

Exactly

Unfortunately, internet forums like this one are relics of the dying "Web 1.0". I - as an old guy 😬 - think that's terrible, but that's the way it is. Therefore I inform myself about this topic also much about "Web 2.0" platforms, as for example YouTube.

There, for example, I found this interesting information in a comment on a video about Theo's name:

Having written Elbereth on Gil-gald's sleeves and Aran Einior on his breast in Cirth is imo quite a bit of effort and really cool to see. They also used Tengwar correctly on that one scroll (unlike Shadow of War lol).
The Khuzdul in Cirth in the background of the Dísa picture was also quite interesting and some of it I could read.

So that means if they want to, they can definitely get it right! 👍

But also:

It looks like they are different teams. The inscriptions seem to be made by people who are familiar with the subject. The questionable personal names, however, probably come from authors in responsible positions who apparently have no deeper idea about Tolkien. My conclusion: Certain teams do a good job, but others do not. So there is a lack of overall quality control here. That's what happens when you kick out people like Shippey. After the predominantly negative fan feedback so far, Amazon should actually draw consequences and fire the responsible managers of this project.

 

[Olorgando]

Unfortunately, this picture looks so much like "Wheel of Time", and that's not a good omen at all.

You get the impression that they just bought the naming rights to attract more people, while the authors don't have a clue about Tolkien's works.

Exactly

What other Fantasy adaptions are there? GRRM's "A Song of Ice and Fire", translated into HBO's "Game of Thrones"; Andrzej Sapkowski's "The Witcher" series of books, also translated into a TV series, apparently aired by Netflix. And probably a lot of stuff I've never heard of. PJ's six fanfics can also be viewed on the small screen by now ...

Let's be realistic. What's the audience Amazon is aiming for? The readers of the books by JRRT, GRRM, Sapkowski, or Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson (and never mind book nerds like us)? Dream on. PJ & Co. have created their own (visual) "canon", which is probably all millions in the film and TV audiences are familiar with. And fantasy fans do seem to like "more of the (more or less) same". Happened with books decades ago, with that "Shannara" series of books by Terry Brooks, originally a trilogy which then sprouted sequels and prequels.

Makes me think of "Star Wars", of whose prequels, sequels spin-offs and whatnot I've simply lost count. Such franchises do have possibilities ...
... and especially if the characters are invented and thus not covered by book copyrights ...

Hasn't anyone approached PJ yet with the idea of creating a Tauriel spin-off, kind of a latter-day Elven Xena? 😁

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Maybe it's an effort to achieve Slack.

 

[Annatar]

Hasn't anyone approached PJ yet with the idea of creating a Tauriel spin-off, kind of a latter-day Elven Xena?

"My girl Galadriel!!!!!!🤙🤙🤙"

 

[Annatar]

What other Fantasy adaptions are there?

There are a few more or less good ones. Not all of them are book adaptations, but from my point of view rather successful fantasy films. But they are just a bit older. What comes to my mind spontaneously:

- Nosferatu
- some Japanese animes like "Chihiro"
- Edward Scissorhands and other Tim Burton movies
- some children's animations like "How to Train Your Dragon" or "Shrek"
- Dance of the Vampires
- Bram Stoker's Dracula
- Stardust
- some Terry Pratchett adaptations
- some Star Wars movies or even Mandalorian episodes
- The Neverending Story (but the book is much better)
- The Last Unicorn (but the book is much better)
- "Tři oříšky pro Popelku" or "Ronja Rövardotter" and many other fairy tale adaptations that are probably not known outside Europe
- Asian wuxia films such as "A Chinese Ghost Story" or "Hero"
- various "Arthur and the Holy Grail" adaptations
- The Dark Crystal
- etc.

What do they have in common? For the most part, they are timeless and represent general, positive truths without becoming too political. Fantasy is escapism, but basic and timeless themes remain present; and these adaptations for the most part manage not to be allegories of current times, something Tolkien detested, by the way, as anyone who has read the preface to The Lord of the Rings knows.

 

[Annatar]

At "Rings of Power," however, they say:

The driving question behind the production, he adds, was this: “Can we come up with the novel Tolkien never wrote and do it as the mega-event series that could only happen now?”

How arrogant is that?
In addition: They have no rights to the Silmarillion and other deeper sources. Only to the few pages from the appendices of the Lord of the Rings.
So in fact, Tolkien actually DID wirte this novel! But Amazon doesn't have the rights.

Arrogance plus political agenda plus lack of rights -> Can only go wrong. Nevertheless, I'm always amused by the justifications of the notorious optimists who still talk themselves into believing it. Keep it up, I find it funny. 😹

By the way, I also find it interesting that the forum moderators seem to only give likes to series "shills" but not to series critics. With all the information that has been published in the meantime, I find that a bit suspicious! Unless you're completely screwed, you should have noticed that 85% of Tolkien fans don't want that crap. So are you really Tolkien fans? Do monetary issues play a bigger role than one would like to think? Not that I would expect a serious answer, but rather censorship... 😜
As I said, I think it's a shame when "Web 1.0" with its originally grandiose forum structure goes under, but if its moderators can't maintain rudimentary neutrality, you'll be dead after the first season at the latest.
People will remember that you sided with the wrong side and you will no longer be a platform for the majority of Tolkien fans but rather for the remaining 5-15% and those who know nothing about Tolkien but will like this blasphemous series. Do you really want that? Well, I don't care, but that was my last clue in that regard. Of course, as always, some jerks will make fun of it, but then you just can't be helped anymore. 💀

Yes, I keep attacking you moderators here. But I don't mean it badly, I just want a Tolkien forum to stay with Tolkien and not be sold to any zeitgeisty adaptations! And yes, I still have the expectation that you are absolute book connoisseurs and advocates and are highly critical of every film adaptation and do not accept any money from any producers, because otherwise you will not be credible.
You should be the first front line in defending the original, not the henchmen of some globalist corporation that just wants to make money and doesn't give Tolkien the respect he deserves.

PS: I appreciate that Squint-eyed Southerner liked that post.