Mithril in Arda

[Ithrynluin]

From Unfinished Tales; Disaster of the Gladden Fields:

In a casket on a high shelf two things were laid. One was a small case of gold, attached to a fine chain; it was empty, and bore no letter or token, but beyond all doubt it had once borne the Ring about Isildur's neck. Next to it lay a treasure without price, long mourned as lost for ever: the Elendilmir itself, the white star of Elvish crystal upon a fillet of mithril that had descended from Silmarien to Elendil, and had been taken by him as the token of royalty in the North Kingdom.
[Author's note.] For that metal was found in Númenor. In "The Line of Elros" Tar-Telemmaitë, the fifteenth Ruler of Númenor, is said to have been called so (i.e. "silver-handed") because of his love of silver, "and he bade his servants to seek ever for mithril." But Gandalf said that mithril was found in Moria "alone in the world" (The Fellowship of the Ring II 4).

Here is the full passage where Gandalf states that, from A Journey in the Dark:

`Then what do the dwarves want to come back for? ' asked Sam.
'For mithril,' answered Gandalf. `The wealth of Moria was not in gold and jewels, the toys of the Dwarves; nor in iron, their servant. Such things they found here, it is true, especially iron; but they did not need to delve for them: all things that they desired they could obtain in traffic. For here alone in the world was found Moria-silver, or true-silver as some have called it: mithril is the Elvish name. The Dwarves have a name which they do not tell. Its worth was ten times that of gold, and now it is beyond price; for little is left above ground, and even the Orcs dare not delve here for it. The lodes lead away north towards Caradhras, and down to darkness. The Dwarves tell no tale; but even as mithril was the foundation of their wealth, so also it was their destruction: they delved too greedily and too deep, and disturbed that from which they fled, Durin's Bane. Of what they brought to light the Orcs have gathered nearly all, and given it in tribute to Sauron, who covets it.
`Mithril! All folk desired it. It could be beaten like copper, and polished like glass; and the Dwarves could make of it a metal, light and yet harder than tempered steel. Its beauty was like to that of common silver, but the beauty of mithril did not tarnish or grow dim. The Elves dearly loved it, and among many uses they made of it ithildin, starmoon, which you saw upon the doors. Bilbo had a corslet of mithril-rings that Thorin gave him. I wonder what has become of it? Gathering dust still in Michel Delving Mathom-house, I suppose.'

Clearly, there is an inconsistency here. Do you think that Gandalf was mistaken? I am of the opinion that he was not, and that this is just an error on J.R.R.'s part. To the best of my knowledge, there is never any mention of mithril in any tales of Numenor; and though Numenor has some hills/mountains, I don't recall any mining going on there. The mithril for the Elendilmir must have come from Moria somehow...

What do you think?

 

[BlackCaptain]

Mabey thats why it's in Unfinished Tales... iduno... I guess it would probly just be a mistake on Tolkiens part, or mabey Mithril was just sent to Andor and it was 'found' there...

good question

 

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

A lot of things conflict in the Unfinished Tales, so I see no real surprise that this would be one too.

 

[Lantarion]

Yes; but it does surprise me a little that the metal was so terribly rare.. Arda was, well, a pretty big place and it seems unrealistic that mithril would only be found in one, small, northern patch.. Not even a 'strain', but a single sort of 'mine'..

 

[YayGollum]

Ack! There was obviously mithril in both places. The evil torturer Gandalf said that there was only mithril to be found in Moria because Numenor was gone.

 

[Ithrynluin]

Originally posted by YayGollum
Ack! There was obviously mithril in both places. The evil torturer Gandalf said that there was only mithril to be found in Moria because Numenor was gone.

Sure, that's a possibility. However, Gandalf says "For here alone in the world was found Moria-silver" which might as well be referring to the Second Age, when Moria was in full bloom; (or it might be referring to all ages in general). And Numenor sure existed then.

 

[Pale King]

But your forgetting that the material in UT was never published, it lay in verying states of completion and as such cannot truly contradict anything that was published in LOTR. If the passage you quoted about Numenor Mithril had ever got close to publication I'm sure that the inconsistentsy would have been rectified. Your comparing old notes (which are subjuct to revision and change) with published works, there will be lots of inconsistensies to be found if you go down that route.

 

[Ithrynluin]

I said "Clearly, there is an inconsistency here." in my initial post. The purpose of this thread is not to wonder and gaze in disbelief at the two passages, but to try and reconcile them, if possible. Isn't that the purpose for discussion boards such as this one?

 

[Glomund]

I have always thought the fact that Numenor was drowned avoided any inconsistancy. Gandalfs words may be a slip by Tolkien, but Gandalf had just said that the orcs had plundered what the dwarves had brought to light. So his using the past tense is correct, it is no longer found in Middle Earth, since no one could look for it, and since there was no other physical place it had been found before, Moria was the only place left it had ever been found

 

[YayGollum]

I was thinking that little 'was' of the evil torturer Gandalf's was talking more about Moria not being much of a place for grabbing mithril anymore. Know what I mean? It's just like saying a restaurant was the only place in the world you could ever find some certain drink. Whoever made the drink can come back and do it again if they really felt like it. The little 'here' of his was talking about the world that's actually around. Wouldn't include Numenor.