🌋Mordor and the Black Gates

[joxy]

The book version, at the point where Frodo and Sam are on the last stage of their journey to Mount Doom, after escaping from the orcs' forced march and discarding the orc clothes, and about to throw away almost all of their remaining possesions:
"No taste of food, no feel of water, no sound of wind, no memory of tree or grass or flower, no image of moon or star are left to me. I am naked in the dark, Sam, and there is no veil between me and the wheel of fire. I begin to see it even with my waking eyes and all else fades".
The film version is remarkably close, and is probably the longest dialogue taken direct from the books in the whole set. "Naked in the dark" reminds me instantly of "Barefoot in the park", which isn't Tolkien's fault! Those appositions in the first sentence seemed laboured, and the whole thing sounded like something from a melodrama - but I'm gradually re-thinking, and at least, and at last, there is something actually to thank PJ's family for - giving us real Tolkien and all Tolkien!

After that a contrast, in the question of the day: Isn't Bilbo's appearance and behaviour totally absurd, entirely wrong?

 

[Melian_the_Maya]

I like the dark screen as well, it gives a sense of supense to those who haven't read the book - my brother, who, most shamefully, does not like Tolkien at all, was already jumping up and ready to go and it was so satisfactory to hear him groan as the movie continued...

I personally don't think Frodo's naked in the dark speech is bad in the books. Although it seems laboured, that might be because Frodo himself was far from his best shape at that point. If you picture the sick and very hopeless Frodo writing these lines, you'd imagine that it's very real, because after all that's how the mind of a dying person works - or so I'm told.

About Bilbo, well we all remember that when Frodo comes to Rivendell for the first time, Bilbo is already an old hobbit and that when Frodo returns, he is very old and sleepy and to a point helpless. He is then revived when he goes to Valinor...

 

[Barliman Butterbur]

...[a]When did F&S leave their orc-gear, and where did F's trousers and shirt come from?...Five horses approach them; I can make out only four coming back...

a. Methinks we'll find out when the EE is released in December.
b. This reminds me of the part in TTT where Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas leave their horses to go into Fangorn Forest in search of Merry and Pippin. They meet Gandalf and come out of the forest, whereupon Gandalf whistles for Shadowfax. Next thing we see, they're ALL horsed onced again, riding to Edoras. What happened? (I don't really care all that much, but that's a boo-boo that stuck in my mind.)

...Film Sam did fight Shelob, very effectively, with Sting, and he went on to thrust it through the orc guarding Frodo in the Tower...

As we know, Sting is supposed to go blue when in the vicinity of orcs, and we saw it glowing like crazy when Sam, in rescuing Frodo, stuck that orc through the chest. But when he took it out, no glow! Did Sting blow a fuse? Was it too much trouble for the Special Effects guys to keep the effect going? Hoo ha? Things like that are what annoy, but can be gotten used to.

By the way — I've been following the developing technology of high-definition DVDs. We should start seeing them sometime around 2005-06. Then it'll be time to trade up to a new DVD player and a new LOTR hi-def DVD set, to say nothing of a hi-def TV (I already have mine, and am looking forward to seeing the Olympics more than ever)! They broadcast TTT in hi-def one night, and all I can say is, WOW!!!

Barley

 

[joxy]

....the sick and very hopeless Frodo writing these lines, you'd imagine that it's very real, because after all that's how the mind of a dying person works....
Bilbo....very old and sleepy and to a point helpless.

I can't really think that someone dying would have the mental agility to express himself in second-rate blank verse! However,
as I said, I'm coming round to the thought that it's actually better than my first reaction, better than second-rate prose.
The film gives Bilbo only five or six years away from the Shire, so I do think his disintegrating appearance and behaviour are o-t-t.

B B: It's good to see you around again, good landlord!
Those suddenly appearing horses always have been a mystery, so I suppose we must take the disappearing ones as cancelling them out! As you say, neither is much actually to care about, but my point in these matters has always been: how is it that PJ can spend multi-millions on minute details and yet allow stuff like this through to the finished product? - He's supposed to be a master of his craft after all!

 

[Barliman Butterbur]

I can't really think that someone dying would have the mental agility to express himself in second-rate blank verse!...

You'd be surprised what can be done by one who has had long and intense preparation. In The Tibetan Book of the Dead (a tome not to be read lightly by the faint-of-heart), It says

"...that the science of death, as expounded in this treatise, has been arrived at through the actual experiencing of death on the part of the learned lamas, who, when dying, have explained to their pupils the very process of death itself, in analytical and elaborate detail."

(The Tibetan Book of the Dead, Third Edition, W. Y. Evans-Wentz, Oxford University Press)

Just thought I'd toss that in...

Barley

 

[joxy]

I always knew that those peaceful looking gentlemen in saffron robes had some gruesome hidden depths!