Morgoth's power

[Ithrynluin]

The History of Middle Earth XI: The War of the Jewels; The Grey Annals
Then Morgoth cursed Húrin and Morwen and their offspring and set a doom upon them of sorrow and darkness; and taking Húrin from prison he set him in a chair of stone upon a high place of Thangorodrim. There he could see afar the land of Hithlum westward and the lands of Beleriand southward. There Morgoth standing beside him cursed him again, and set his power upon him so that he could not stray from that place, nor die, unless Morgoth released him.

What were the properties of this power of Melkor's?

The Valar could not change the fates of the Children. Therefore was Melkor's power only temporary here? Or could he make Húrin sit there forever, if he wanted to?

Also: Don't you think that the view was simply breathtaking from Húrin's standpoint?

 

[Kahmûl]

Yeh the view would have been good and if Melkor could mess about with the fates of men then wouldn't Manwe be able to aswell since they are equal in power.

 

[jallan]

I think an important part of that passage is:

... and set his power upon him so that he could not stray from that place, nor die, unless Morgoth released him.

Morgoth does this for a purpose, to allow Húrin to see the effect of Morgoth’s curse on Húrin’s children. It was not Morgoth’s intent to hold Húrin there forever and indeed Morgoth did release Húrin after the deaths of Túrin and Nienor. Húrin had aged normally during that time as far as we can tell.

One might guess that had Morgoth wished to keep Húrin there forever, eventually the force of keeping Húrin alive beyond his years despite aging would have been too much for Morgoth and he would then have released Húrin to immediate death.

But this punishment laid on Húrin raises for me the question of why Morgoth could not lay such power of sight on himself to spy out his enemies.

 

[Lhunithiliel]

But how can we be sure that he did not have this ability himself?
I can't remember anything much written about Melkor's very specific features apart of course from the ever-present picture of him as the Dark Lord, the mightiest of the Vala etc. But not much is said in particular..
Yet... only for him being a Vala (the mightiest!) hints perhaps that he did have quite remarkable abilities! I guess what he imposed on Hurin was something "normal" for him but perhaps not bearable by a mortal....
But...yes ! The view must have been outstanding! However, even if the playground was magnificent, the "play" itself was so sad and terrifying that a normal human mind could not probably hold that ! Poor Hurin! What a tragedy!!!!

 

[Starflower]

if Melkor could mess about with the fates of men then wouldn't Manwe be able to aswell since they are equal in power.

I think the difference is, that Manwe probably could but wouldn't . Melkor always strived to use his powers to subdue others, to have servants and worshippers, whereas Manwe sought to teach and help , not conquer

If the Valar could bind Melkor himself in chains and keep him imprisoned beyond the Walls of the NIght, then that would imply that this power to hold someone agains their will exists in them all, but only Melkor chose to use it - for evil .


Starflower

 

[Grond]

Sauron made men undead and bound them to Middle-earth via their enslavement to the Nine Rings of Power. How much more power would Sauron's master have wielded. Substantially more. In his prime, he was coeval if not greater than Manwe. Remember, it took all of the other Valar to subdue him.

 

[Elbereth]

In the mind of Illuvatar, Melkor was of greatest power and had a part of all the powers of the Valar. However, due to his own will and conceit, Melkor corrupted these powers to evil purposes. (as stated in the Lost Road & other stories)

Now Grond is right in all respects, except that it was not Sauron, but his master Melkor who was coeval with Manwe, as they were brethren and of equal strength. Manwe however, was closest to the mind of Illuvatar, and therefore of great strength and knowledge.

However, I should point out that it was not in the minds of the other Valar to want to seek power though. Their goal was only to cultivate and be a part of the grand world that Illuvatar had orchestrated for them.

 

[Elbereth]

Originally posted by ithrynluin

The Valar could not change the fates of the Children. Therefore was Melkor's power only temporary here? Or could he make Húrin sit there forever, if he wanted to?

Just to play devils advocate here, who is to say that it was not Hurin's fate to become a victim of Melkor's revenge. It is because of this fate that deeds both great and awful came to Middle Earth.

Everything happens for a reason...even the most terrible situations occur for a purpose that is sometimes greater than we know.

 

[Beleg]

Now Grond is right in all respects, except that it was not Sauron, but his master Melkor who was coeval with Manwe, as they were brethren and of equal strength. Manwe however, was closest to the mind of Illuvatar, and therefore of great strength and knowledge.

Grond is talking about Melkor himself and not Sauron, hence his words 'Sauron's master' show.

Closest to Eru's mind doesn't necessarily mean that Manwe automatically weilded the most power in physical world. That depends upon the innate power of their spirit and mind given to the ainur by Eru.

 

[Elbereth]

You are correct closest to Illuvatar's mind doesn't mean that Manwe is the greatest in power...I never in fact said that he did....I said he had great power, as quoted from Tolkien directly. I believe you missed my point.

My point is that because of the knowledge and understanding of Illuvatar's mind...it does give Manwe an equal footing with Melkor. I do not believe he is any more powerful than Melkor.