Not by the hands of men

[Anamatar IV]

Glorfindel prophecied that not by the hands of men would the witch-king perish. Does this mean not by the hands of the race of men or not by the hands of the gender of men?

This obviously would end the question who killed the witch king since merry is a man-man and EOwyn a man-woman...

I am leaning towards man as in gender...other wise an elf could have sticken down the w. king. But I could be wrong.

 

[Legolas254]

I think he meant the gender man, on a count of Eowyn is a woman, but the race of Men..I think he meant gender.

 

[Confusticated]

I think that man is ment to be the gender within the race of.

Remember, Merry had a big hand in it too.

 

[Duguay]

Since the witch king could not have been killed without both Merry and Eowyn wailing on him, I generally take this statement to be: not by the hand of a male of the race of men will he be slain.

 

[*Lady Aragorn*]

i haven't yet read the books but i think that men will dominate the witch-king.

 

[Goldberry]

Originally posted by Duguay
Since the witch king could not have been killed without both Merry and Eowyn wailing on him, I generally take this statement to be: not by the hand of a male of the race of men will he be slain.

I agree, that is the way I always interpreted it too.

 

[HLGStrider]

i haven't yet read the books but i think that men will dominate the witch-king.

Huh?

Anyway, I agree... It was a mutual endevor... and then he perished! BANG! Dead guy...

 

[Mablung]

Or maybe Glorfindel was just wrong and he thought that none of the race of men would kill the witch king.

 

[Húrin Thalion]

Ahhh... Here it comes, the hated translation error in the Swedish edition, After reading the LotR 13 times, I still thought it was Merry who struck down the chief Nazgûl, this because Åke Ojlmarks had made an error in his otherwise splendid translation. It said that it was Merry that with his last strength thrust his sword into the wizardking's head! Then I read it in English and got it straightened up. He was slain by Eowyn and the prophecy was made referring to gender.

Húrin Thalion

 

[Niniel]

I agree with Duguay that it refers both to the race of Men and to the gender of men, so that Merry as a Hobbit and Eowyn as a woman could slay the witch-king.

 

[Mindy_O_Lluin]

That's atrocious that a translator could have been so far off as Åke Ojlmarks was. He must have been a sexist and couldn't abide the correct intent. (Ranting required)

 

[Arvedui]

He must have meant male men from the race of Men. That's how I have always understood it anyway.

 

[Anamatar IV]

Well I would consider Hobbits of the race of men...notice how they are called "The little people" and men are called by them "the big people". Hobbits dont call elves the big people and men dont call Dwarves the little people.

 

[Arvedui]

I don't. Never have, never will.
Men are Men, Hobbits are Hobbits.
Just my opinion.

 

[Confusticated]

In Bree the men and hobbits call eachother the big people and the little people. People does not mean men.
Dwarves, elves and I would say even ents are all people. But none are men... so why should a hobbit be just because some hobbit-like men in bree call them little people.

 

[redline2200]

OK, I am going against the crowd and saying it did not mean gender. Whenever Tolkien says "the hands of men" I don't think he was talking about gender. When he says "men" he 99% of the time is referring to the species or race of men.I think if he meant gender then tolkien would have had glorfindel say "not by the hands of a man" not "not by the hands of men." I think that either Glorfindel was wrong or Tolkien intended to have had Merry kill the witch king.

 

[Confusticated]

But after the fact we can look back and see that Glorfindel ment the gender and as I said in my first post I think this ment the gender of the race of....
Why do I think it ment race too? Merry the hobbit.

I think his prophecy was a riddle... everyone would assume he just ment race... but he didn't, that is plain now.

 

[Arvedui]

Remember that Glorfindel is not just an ordinary Elf. he had foresight. I don't regard his saying as just a prophecy, but that it was something that he "saw" in the future. He "saw" that the Witch-king was killed by Eowyn and Merry, therefore his words 'not by men.'

 

[Beleg]

Is it ever written that he 'saw' Ewoyn and Merry? I doubt this.
There can be other possibilites too, for example it could just have dawned upon him that the Witch King would die not by a Man's hand. IMO he didn't necessarily see 'Ewoyn and Merry', only the point that the witch king won't be slain by a Man dawned onto him.

 

[HLGStrider]

I don't believe it was foresight in that he saw Eowyn and Merry specifically. . .I think he just saw it wasn't a man.