Of the 💎Silmarils and the Light of Valar

[Anárion]

Alright, I never did finish the Silmarillion, but I may start back up again if I get stuff strait.
First off, what was so important about the light of valar? I mean, its just a tree with light shining off of it? Why would Morgoth have Ungoliant suck the light out of it?
And what about the Silmarils? Its not like they give you any magic power or anything...do they? They just shine and stuff and Morgoth put them on a crown. Whoopity do!
So, if you could help me out here, thatd be great.

 

[BlackCaptain]

All of the Elves and Mens' history is based around Light. Men love the Sun, Elves love the Stars, and if it wasn't for the Light of the Valar, neither of these races would be alive in the first place, because one of the trees' light kindled the vassal of the Sun, and one of the trees' light kindled the vassal of the Moon. And Varda (Elbereth) took some dew from the silver tree and kindled the stars with them.

The entire fate of the Noldor rest in the Silmarills, because of the Doom of Mandos.

 

[FoolOfATook]

I was just thinking about why the Elves would go to war over the Silmarils, and the first thing that I thought about was the Trojan War. "Is this the face that launched a thousand ships/ and burnt the topless towers of Ilium?" The Trojan War was fought over a beautiful woman, why is it such a stretch to believe that the Elves would go to war to avenge the death of one of their leaders and to recapture their peoples' most beautiful creation?

Try thinking about it that way, if you can't understand it any other way.

 

[YayGollum]

Yay for The Iliad! Anyways, Mel messed with the trees because he was having fun with being evil by taking away what made people happy. People fought over silmarils because they were evil and stubborn. No good reasons. Unless you think the fact that everybody likes silmarils is an excuse. They couldn't help it.

 

[Turgon]

Erm... Yay for FoaT! I thought I was the only Kit Marlowe quoter on the forum...

But the Silmarils..? Well one thing is for sure they were not simply baubles to be fought over...

'All who dwelt in Aman were filled with wonder and delight at the work of Fëanor. And Varda hallowed the Silmarils, so that thereafter no mortal flesh, nor hands unclean, nor anything of evil will might touch them, but it was scorched and withered; and Mandos foretold that the fates of Arda, earth, sea, and air, lay locked within them.'

Now I'm not saying the Noldor's motives were entirely pure when they set out to make war upon Melkor. But surely the Fate of Arda is worth fighting for?

 

[BlackCaptain]

The Silmarills contained the last of the light that gave birth to the Children of Illuvitar, and were in the posesion of Melkor. I like Turgon's quote and ideas.

 

[Elendil3119]

The Silmarills contained the last of the light that gave birth to the Children of Illuvitar

What exactly do you mean "the light that gave birth to the Children of Iluvatar"?

I think the reason that the elves valued the Silmarils so highly was that they contained the only remaining light of the Two Trees.

 

[BlackCaptain]

Dew from Teleprion kindled the stars, wich gave birth to the Elves.

 

[Anárion]

Right.....out of all those posts, the only one that made any sense at all was YayGollum's.

Does anyone else think thats pathetic?
So, let me get this strait, Morgoth was just being an overall mean person and sucked the light out of the trees and stole the silmarils.

But...wouldnt everyone die because the light was gone if the light kept them alive??

 

[FoolOfATook]

But...wouldnt everyone die because the light was gone if the light kept them alive??

If the light had been keeping the Eldar alive, then I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Rape of the Silmarils caused their demise. Luckily, the continued existence of the Elves was not tied to the continued existence of the jewels.

 

[Anárion]

Ahhhh....I see.....wait....no I dont...
I thought the Valar were tied to the tree? But you say the Eldar are...
Arent they like, the same people?
This book is confusing!

 

[Nenya Evenstar]

Hmmm . . . maybe it'll help if I try to outline some stuff here.

One of the remarkable things about Arda is that it does not necessarily need light to exist. Sure, things need the light to grow, but many things slept during the times of darkness that occasionally enveloped the lands.

First Yavanna planted the seeds of the plants on Middle-earth, and then she created the two lamps, Illuin and Ormal. After the light from these two lamps was created, things began to grow. Then Melkor came and destroyed this first light. This ended the Spring of Arda.

The Valar then moved to Valinor where Yavanna sang the two trees into existence: Telperion and Laurelin. These two trees signified the blessed light of the heavenly realm of the Gods, so to speak. They signified the beginning of the count of time, and also the beginning of the Days of the Bliss of Valinor.

The light of the two trees never really reached Middle-earth except through the stars. This is why the Elves were born in the starlight.

Now, when Feanor created the Silmarills and locked within them the light of the two trees, he created probably one of the most beautiful creations ever to be created.

For Feanor, being come to his full might, was filled with a new thought, or it may be that some shadow of foreknowledge came to him of the doom that drew near; and he pondered how the light of the Trees, the glory of the Blessed Realm, might be preserved imperishable.

The Light of the two trees was unmatched . . . it was the Days of Bliss. So, within the jewels was locked this light, this treasure.

When Melkor destroyed the two trees he, in a sense, put an end to the Days of Bliss in Valinor, and darkened the most beautiful and hallowed light that ever (or will) existed in Arda. The Silmarills were treasured because they contained that light. They are important, as has been stated earlier, because much of the History of Arda was woven about their fate. And they came from the two trees, thus making those two trees important in yet another way.

I hope that helped.

And as a side note, the Eldar are actually the Elves that went to Valinor and saw the light of the two trees . . . so there's another connection!

 

[Anárion]

Ah ha....I get it now.
Thanks for the help

 

[Nenya Evenstar]

You're welcome! Anytime.

 

[Lhunithiliel]

Turgon
quote:
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'All who dwelt in Aman were filled with wonder and delight at the work of Fëanor. And Varda hallowed the Silmarils, so that thereafter no mortal flesh, nor hands unclean, nor anything of evil will might touch them, but it was scorched and withered; and Mandos foretold that the fates of Arda, earth, sea, and air, lay locked within them.'
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Now I'm not saying the Noldor's motives were entirely pure when they set out to make war upon Melkor. But surely the Fate of Arda is worth fighting for?

But ain't it just a consequence?!
The rape of the Silmarils was IMO just a cause- there always have to be some cause for great events and for history itself to develop.
In fact, if one looks at it, ain't history a series of causes and sequences?!
Were it not for the rape of the Silmarils by Morgoth, there surely would have been another event that could have served as a cause for the Elves to move on to ME and .... so on.

 

[Beleg]

I don't think it's a concidence. For once, As the Quote implied, Tolkien meant the Silmaril's to be off central character in the tale. he perhaps wanted to show how a thing beautiful and great can corrupt people's heart. Silmaril's were an essential element in the development of Feanor's character. If it weren't for them, then Feanor's heart would have been bitter against Morgoth, and things might have gone the other way. The death of Finwe wouldn't have happened and Gnomes (Cool Name!) wouldn't have travelled to Middle-Earth. The whole tale might have been put upside down and it might not have been so interesting as it is now.
True Tolkien wanted to portray some message though the books and the objects, but to portray the message, Silmaril's were just the correct objects and made Tolkien's message and intentions more clear.
The story is interconected and interlinked. If for examples the rape of Silmaril's wouldn't have happened then there would have been Earendil and Elves wouldn't have met Men and People like Turin would have been wondering helpless and wonderless in Middle-Earth. Etc, etc. Many possibilites originate, so it is better to forgo the concept of "What if's"

 

[Confusticated]

Originally posted by Anárion
Alright, I never did finish the Silmarillion, but I may start back up again if I get stuff strait.
First off, what was so important about the light of valar?[b/]

It has the effect of healing the hurts of Morgoth. It pretty much stays the effects of time, and it was for this reason that the Valar became content in Valinor and forsook Middle-earth until Morgoth had the upper hand in Middle-earth to the extent that the Valar could only sneek around for brief whiles there.

I mean, its just a tree with light shining off of it? Why would Morgoth have Ungoliant suck the light out of it?

Melkor needed Ungoliant's help, and the light was a reward to her, it was his revenge against the Valar, and attack on their realm.

And what about the Silmarils? Its not like they give you any magic power or anything...do they?

They do not give anyone "magic" power, but the light of them was from the trees and so it also has the effect to heal the evil of Morgoth. This light was probably beautiful beyond what we can imagine.

They just shine and stuff and Morgoth put them on a crown. Whoopity do!

Morgoth desired light, even though he came to be a thing of darkness who was pained by it. The key here is that this wasn't just any light, it was not as sunlight. The light was holy.

 

[Anárion]

I see. That clears it up a lot. Now if I ever go to the library any time soon I can start up again