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PJ talks about the sequels...not good news.

PRH

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Joined
Dec 20, 2001
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You may not want to read this if you are avoiding SPOILERS! I'm warning you now:

This is a fan's report from a Q&A PJ held at a Barnes&Noble in NYC -

http://www.theonering.net/rumour_mill/rpg/viewer/main/3C770EF10003332C.html

INFO FROM THE NYC Barnes & Noble event

The whole q&a was interesting. Peter imparted the information about the DVD and trailer which we've heard before. He did say that every theater still screening FOTR on March 22nd will be sent a new final reel containing the 3 1/2 minute preview of TTT which will feature some "amazing" things. He was quite adamant that this preview be seen only in the theater, as a present to the fans who have seen the movie multiple times. A 1 minute proper trailer will be aired in theaters and on television later in the year.

Also, he said that the deluxe DVD -- not "director's" cut -- will be out in the fall, and will contain the extra 30 minutes. Specifically the "gift giving" scene, more of the Legolas/Gimli relationship, some extra development of Aragorn's character, and additional character development in general.

His objection to the phrase "director's cut" seems based on a fear of implying that the theatrical release did not meet his approval. However, he went on to say that he impressed upon New Line the need to get the gift giving scene 'out there' so that the audience will understand the origin of the gifts which will be come important later on in the story. He specifically referred to the "rope" and the "phial."

He was very considerate in explaining that fans will encounter greater story alteration in TTT. He said that TTT in general is not long enough to provide material for a whole film. Consequently, he says that he, Fran, and Phillipa wrote additional scenes expanding upon the Frodo, Sam, Gollum triangle, and that Faramir will also have an increased role in the film. No further explanation than that, tho.

Shelob will not make an appearance until ROTK, but he says the Ents are "awesome" and that we will get to see them storm Isengard in TTT, rather than hear about it after the fact.

The scouring of the shire is out. PJ said it simply was not practical to retain it, as the story arc is rooted in Frodo's quest to destroy the ring. He said that while understanding the reasons -- personal and literal -- that the passage was important to Tolkien, that it adds an unnecessary coda to the story that he had always, even as a reader, found "awkward." He said that the scenes in Galadriel's mirror were his way of paying "homage" to the material, as showing the possible results if the quest should fail. He gave no indication of how he was going to get around this in the final movie, but we should probably start speculating now, as it seems certain.

He gave quite a few details, which we've read in various places, about the process of motion capturing Andy SerkisSerkis' movements which will become the "skelatal foundation" of the CG Gollum. He said that in many ways SerkisSerkis' performance is so good, it's a shame that Gollum has to be CG. All the same, he implied that we will be blown away. Additionally, he said that they are still finding gaps in the story as they edit, which will require "pick up" filming both this year and next, to complete scenes as yet unwritten, to flesh out both TTT and ROTK.  A final word on editing, Fran said that the script for TTT was written to intercut between the three main fields of action: Merry/Pippin/Ents, Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli, and Frodo/Sam/Gollum. Although they are not yet near completion of cutting the film, PJ indicated that this will probably be the finished result, rather than following Tolkien's strict division of the action.

Howard Shore, although not questioned closely, was quite open about the fear and challenges of taking on so huge of a project. One thing I forgot to mention above, Shore will be composing and recording an additional 30 minutes of music for the DVD, rather than recycling themes from the completed score of FOTR. PJ cited this as yet another example of how they are breaking all the rules of what is usually done in the movie machine.


I cut out some stuff that was mostly just gushing over PJ.
 
Oh, i just read all this over at OneRing a few moments ago. The scouring is out! Ahhhhhhhhhhh... I wonder how they are going to pull the whole thing together at the end then.

And not enough material in TTT but then they shove Shelob into RotK? Okaaaaay. Ah well, i'm still willing to keep an open mind! :D
 
And not enough material in TTT but then they shove Shelob into RotK?

I know. How can he say that when ROTK is the shortest book!? I guess he thinks it has the most 'fluff?' I don't know...

it [scouring] adds an unnecessary coda to the story that he had always, even as a reader, found "awkward."

This is just utter blasphemy.

I'm starting to sympathize with RW's semtiments on PJ (Happy b-day RW -- there's your present; a partial convert). I get the feeling he started out wanting to make his idea of a good movie, then they moved towards the "no major changes" thing when they were deep into the book and now when it really comes down to it, he doesn't trust the material and is back to his idea of a good movie.
 
Quote:
"He was very considerate in explaining that fans will encounter greater story alteration in TTT. He said that TTT in general is not long enough to provide material for a whole film. Consequently, he says that he, Fran, and Phillipa wrote additional scenes expanding upon the Frodo, Sam, Gollum triangle, and that Faramir will also have an increased role in the film. No further explanation than that, tho."


I find that hard to believe that "TTT in general is not long enough to provide material for a whole film???"

1) Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas' orc chase
2) Frodo and Sam and Gollum's adventures through the Dead Marshes and the gate of Morannon
3) Faramir and Ithilien
4) Ents, Fangorn forest and Ent attack on Orthanc
5) Theoden and Eomer
6) Helm's Deep
7) Saruman and Orthanc
8) Gandalf and Saruman
9) Aragorn and Paths of the Dead
10) Gandalf and Pippin in Minas Tirith

You've got to be kidding me that this (DONE RIGHT!!!!) is not enough material for a movie...It all sounds like another lame excuse to add in PJ's own "interpretation" and pawn it off to the ignorant public and even more ignorant media that this is more "straight from the writings of JRR himself, praise God!!" material...DOWN WITH PJ!!!

:mad:
 
Oh dear, poor FADs. From now on their argument that something was left out because of time-constraints is no longer valid. PJ himself says so: The book is not long enough to fill three movies!
The only reason for leaving out Tom B, is that PJ wanted a decent cliff-hanger with Frodo and Sam going off. Otherwise he could have just ended at the end of lorien, and have enough material for the TT, without needing to invent stuff.
He had better not have left out ANYTHING in the other two movies...(oh, but he did already, didn't he?)
 
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I guess I'm the only "Purist Jerk" who isn't upset about leaving Tom B. and The Scouring of the Shire out of the movie...or at least in the tiny minority, but it actually makes a lot of sense cinematically. The Scouring works great in the book because no matter where in the book you stop reading you want more, but in the Movie the Scouring would end up being a major lul in the pace of the story. The only way that P.J. could have left it in is to spice it up with a bunch of adventure action that people would have been angry about anyways...

As for Tom B., well he is so inconsequential to the success of the Fellowship that including him would have left the folks who hadn't read the books scratching their heads wondering why he had been included in the first place...But then these are just my opinion...
 
I think the scouring would fit into the movie if it is downplayed quite a bit. There would probably have to be narration to minimize (or eliminate) the dialog. The only scene with actual dialog would be the meeting with Saruman.

PJ cited this as yet another example of how they are breaking all the rules of what is usually done in the movie machine.

Why not break with the movie formula while you're at it? PJ states that the only reason it's in the book it to reflect JRRT's semtiments about the industrialization of the English countryside. No. It plays a very important part to show how far the hobbits (esp. Merry & Pippin) have come in their maturity and learning.

The scouring is the real ending of the War of the Ring. If you don't include it in the movie, you're not making a movie about the War of the Ring - you're just making a movie about the destruction of the Ring. How much of the book revolved around the destruction of the Ring? - the entire FOTR then only half of the next two volumes! There's so much more to the book than just the quest to destroy the Ring so the movie should treat it as such!

This just makes me mad because I feel like I'm gonna be sitting there at the end of ROTK feeling about the same as the end of the Rankin/Bass version. Maybe it'll all be told in flashback by a minstrel while celebrating Bilbo's 130th birthday. I know the scouring is something that doesn't typically fit into the movie formula but it's very important to the story JRRT wrote so PJ should just work it out the best he can and just do it.

At the very least, put it on a special edition DVD.
 
Alas, I had such high hopes for the next two films and PJ is already warning me to "fasten my seat belt because I won't like the alterations." Darn, I so hoped that he would pull the rabbit out of the hat. Oh well, I'll wait to judge until I see how good or bad it is but now I'm waiting in a negative way instead of a positive one. :(
 
Originally posted by Grond
Alas, I had such high hopes for the next two films and PJ is already warning me to "fasten my seat belt because I won't like the alterations." Darn, I so hoped that he would pull the rabbit out of the hat. Oh well, I'll wait to judge until I see how good or bad it is but now I'm waiting in a negative way instead of a positive one. :(

Welcome to the dark side, Grond....It's nice and black over here...heh heh heh.

Why should PJ include the SOS? He hasn't been staying as true as he was claiming to be...trading accuracy for a better cinematic experience...Why would he 'spoil' his movie now by putting that in? It only makes sense not to include SOS considering all the changes he has made already.

All fasiciousness aside, I agree with ReadWryt (and always have, RW since I joined in August, so you can include me in your minority) that SOS, from a cinematic perspective (especially PJ's) wouldn't work. You've already gotten to the climax of the story which movies are meant to end on....SOS would only be an anti-climax (unless you had some serious extra time and reel to play with to really finish the movie properly.)

As much as I like the SOS, I don't think it would work (especially the way that PJ has been doing the screenplay.)
 
I think thr item that irritates me the most about this interview report from P.J. is that he felt he needed to write new scenes for the next two films - even though there were many changes in FOTR, I can't think of a scene that was totally made up by P.J., meaning no basis whatsoever in the book - although if I am wrong, I'd love to get some examples.

As director he is going to pick and choose the scenes - and I am happy to hear about the ents - thank God - but I think he should stop short of getting his wife to write elf dialogue...:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Thorin
I find that hard to believe that "TTT in general is not long enough to provide material for a whole film???"

9) Aragorn and Paths of the Dead
10) Gandalf and Pippin in Minas Tirith

You've got to be kidding me that this (DONE RIGHT!!!!) is not enough material for a movie...

I feel the same way Thorin (not enough material indeed) but allow me to point out that #9 & 10 took place in ROTK.
 
Once again I will say it, the penultimate truth about this matter...it's not so much what is being cut as it is what is being INVENTED. On the one hand we keep hearing statements about what has been left out being supported by the Cinematic Time Constraint defence, yet we keep hearing the same sources stating that there are new scenes created for the movies that never existed in the story. Lets face it, this should be refered to as "A film by Peter Jackson, loosely based on a book by J.R.R. Tolkien". It's the hubris of a man who has repeatedly claimed that he was going to be true to the "spirit of Tolkien", yet when it comes down to it the cutting of the scouring is actually self admitted ignorance of Tolkien's spirit, a man who repeatedly claimed he was making no "Major Changes" to the characters yet he displays his liberties with the characters at every turn, and who stated on several occasions that he was shooting all three movies at once, and act which he loved to point out "nobody" had ever performed in the past and yet now he informs us that "which will require "pick up" filming both this year and next, to complete scenes as yet unwritten, to flesh out both TTT and ROTK.". I don't see where he is doing anything but leading people to believe that he is more then he really is, a second rate Horror Movie director trying to do more then he is capable of...
 
I have to say, I am rather tired arguing my same points in relation to the 'Fellowship' as that of 'Two Towers'.I have stated many times that it is never the removals that concern me, it simply boils down to the scriptwriters free-4-all with Tolkiens work that is most difficult to stomach. I guess by the 'Return of the King', I won't feel any different.
 
I think it will be good (crosses fingers!). If FotR was that awesome with the changes and all, I think this will be awesome too. I have to admit though, I REALLY would have liked to see Shelob and that scene (one of the best scenes I think) this year. Ah well, I'm sure it will be good.
 
As for these 'new' scenes. I guess we'll have to wait and see. PJ described one of the new scenes as a flashback to how Gollum got the Ring. While that might now be told in the course of TTT, I don't know if I'd call it an invention as it was described in FOTR. Perhaps all of these scenes are just based on material like this. Probably not. But a scene that just condenses several others (or explanations given) can take the place of several others which were cut without really counting as an addition. We'll see how this plays out.
 
PRH, I don't think many of us have problems with PJ illustrating things that actually happened in the book via an action scene instead of the narrative story as written by the author. Illustrating how Gollum got the Ring or the blossoming romance of Arwen are examples of things that I feel most of the "purists" would not begrudge PJ. What concerns us is adding additional scenes which never happened.

In the book Gollum found the Ring. In the book Aragorn and Arwen fell in love. In the book, Arwen did not appear in the TT. In the book, Saruman wasn't killed in the TT. Quotes that concern me most are "fleshing out characters." Hell, my favorite characters in the book do not need to be fleshed out. They are plenty fleshy enough as they are written. How will you flesh out Eowyn. Everyone on both the NPW and FAD side have constantly cited her as the prime example of why PJ's "interpretation" of Arwen in FotR was okay because JRRT made such strong female characters as Luthien and Eowyn. And now we have PJ adding more to her character to "flesh her out". Sorry but this hammer just doesn't get that at all. I actually thought he would do more in the next two movies to be truer to the book and it appears I will be disappointed yet again. :(
 

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