• Welcome to The Tolkien Forum! Connect with fellow Tolkien enthusiasts and join a community that is over two decades old, and still going strong. We look forward to meeting you.  Register

📊Poll: Do Balrogs have wings?

Do Balrogs have wings?

  • Yes

    Votes: 261 64.6%
  • No

    Votes: 141 34.9%
  • Maybe (Wing agnostic)

    Votes: 2 0.5%

  • Total voters
    404
Originally posted by Cian
"... and ever one of the accursed ships hath black wings."
This quote is completely different from the Balrog-quote (politely provided by Beorn), where it is perfectly feasable for the Balrog, at the time in the book an "unknown" monstrous being, to have material wings; whereas it is completely ridiculous for a ship to have such (let's call them "bird-like") wings, because they travel by water, not air. :)
 
Originally posted by Lantarion
This quote is completely different from the Balrog-quote ...

Not so :) a comparison to wings is made (like), followed by wings itself (twice).

... where it is perfectly feasable for the Balrog, at the time in the book an "unknown" monstrous being, to have material wings; whereas it is completely ridiculous for a ship to have such ...

So the reading is obvious from the sail/wings example, but is not so obvious in the Balrog example as it's feasable that a Balrog might have wings (correct me if you mean something substantially different). But that the example I posted is easily agreed upon is exactly why I posted it :)

Beorn claimed that the "second styled part" of the Balrog quote "proves" that wings exist. But as it is, the word wings can easily refer to the shadow, as it also refers to the sails.

The shadow and the sails exist. Both are 'wings' in the sense that they are winglike in some way. That's a perfectly reasonable reading of the text IMO, especially in context.

I prefer "shadow" or Unlight, and see no real reason, as yet, why these "wings" need be thought of as more than vast, temporary "reachings".
 
Last edited:
Ah, well alright. I can't say no to you. :D
And I agree anyway, that the Balrog is an Unlight-essense without actual material wings. So there.
 
Originally posted by Lantarion
Ah, well alright. I can't say no to you. :D
And I agree anyway, that the Balrog is an Unlight-essense without actual material wings. So there.

LOL :D

Huzzah for Unlight!
 
What do you mean, exactly? Couldn't he have fallen if he had not had material wings (which he didn't)? :confused:
And anyway, I think any question you might have are probably answered somewhere else in this thread. :)
 
He could not have not fallen if he didn't not have non-material wings ... I think.
 
...And, Cian......I suppose you think the Balrog has sails? :D

Originally posted by Cian
Beorn claimed that the "second styled part" of the Balrog quote "proves" that wings exist. But as it is, the word wings can easily refer to the shadow, as it also refers to the sails.

But, the Balrog quote refers to the shadow and the Balrog as two seperate entities. The ship quote refers to the sails and them metaphorically as wings, as one single entity. No where in the Balrog quote is a simile or metaphor used to connect 'Shadow' and 'Wings.'

Balrog. Shadow

The Balrog reached the bridge. Gandalf stood in the middle of the span, leaning on the staff in his left hand, but in his other hand Glamdring gleamed, cold and white. His enemy halted again, facing him, and the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings. It raised the whip, and the thongs whined and cracked. Fire came from its nostrils. But Gandalf stood firm.
`You cannot pass,' he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. `I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass.'
The Balrog made no answer. The fire in it seemed to die, but the darkness grew. It stepped forward slowly on to the bridge, and suddenly it drew itself up to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall; but still Gandalf could be seen, glimmering in the gloom; he seemed small, and altogether alone: gray and bent, like a wizened tree before the onset of a storm

*wonders if post is semi-coherent*
 
But, the Balrog quote refers to the shadow and the Balrog as two seperate entities. The ship quote refers to the sails and them metaphorically as wings, as one single entity. No where in the Balrog quote is a simile or metaphor used to connect 'Shadow' and 'Wings.'


... shadow reached out _like_ wings. (Balrog quote)

... spread great cloths _like_ wings (sail quote)

The shadow is like wings in some way, but still shadow ... the cloths are like wings in some way, but still cloths (sails). Both are followed up by "wings" which can easily refer back to the thing compared.
 
Well Vir says in the book that they do and in the movie it looks to me like they do so I say and voted that Balrogs have Wings
 
in the book, Tolkien wrote they had wings!

in the movie you can SEE the wings!

John Howe and Ted Nasmith gave em wings!
 
Originally posted by Nefmariel
Well Vir says in the book that they do and in the movie it looks to me like they do so I say and voted that Balrogs have Wings

WELL, when you consider the fact that the movie has a good deal made up and changed, you can't trust PJ's [sarcastic quotes with finger movements]interpretation[/sarcastic quotes with finger movements] for anything. However, I do feel they have wings...As Cian (Cian, please e-mail me at [email protected], or PM me, please) can certainly attest to.
 
wouldn't it be good if there were [sacrastic quoting gesture] smileys available? :rolleyes:
 
why wouldn't they have wings? you could see them clearly in TT, and if you look carefully, you can see them in FotR.
 
OMG!

Please read the entirety of the thread before jumping to conclusions..
And the movies offer absolutely no evidense to back up the argument that the Balrog actually had material wings. Give me a direct, uncontradicted quote from any of Tolkien's books, then I can take you seriously.
 
Balrogs and their wings

Did balrogs have wings or not? I believe they did. Here is why

"The balrog made no answer. The fire in it seemed to die, but the darkness grew. It stepped forward slowly on to the bridge, and suddenly it drew its self up to a great heiht, and its wings were spread from wall to wall"

I believe that is quite straight forward.So opinions thoughts? Are their two breeds of balogs one with wings and others without?
 
please please PLEASE dont start this debate there is no real answer and it only leads to arguements and strife, the answer is known only to Mr Tolkien (if him)!
not once does it state that Balrogs have wings, not 100% for cretain, it is the most debated thing ever to do with Mr Tolkiens works save Mr Bombadil!
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by Celebthôl
please please PLEASE dont start this debate there is no real answer and it only leads to arguements and strife, the answer is known only to Mr Tolkien (if him)!
not once does it state that Balrogs have wings, not 100% for cretain, it is the most dedated thing ever to do with Mr Tolkiens works save Mr Bombadil!
Im actually ust trying to fiure out the logic behind the no wing theoryfor it quite plainly says they had wings in the quote gave.
 
To save me having to trawl around looking for answers, can someone just BRIEFLY set out the 'no wing' case. How can there be one? The man himself said they had wings.
 

Today's events

Similar threads

Back
Top