Question-a-thon

[ZehnWaters]

I am back for my annual round of theoretical questions.

1. What happens if Arvedui lives/Arthedain doesn't fall? Angmar falls, sure, but would the North Kingdom try to claim the throne of Gondor (as Aragorn did) when Eärnur dies? (I'm sure I'll have more questions about this one as I plot out future effects).
   1. How would this affect the Hobbits and the Shire? They were apparently there by then as they remember sending archers to aid in this fight (oof, Hobbit archers, can you imagine the deadly accuracy?).
   2. Could Arthedain just reclaim all of the other three splinter kingdoms now? That would still technically fulfill the prophecy about Arvedui as Malbeth didn't specify WHICH realm. Though, him taking the throne of Gondor after Eärnur dies could still do that, though he'd be well dead by then (especially with the short lifespan of the Arnor kings).
2. Why did the notion of the High King disappear when Isildur died anyway? Was it because Isildur's sons were cousins to the kings of Gondor? That was going to happen eventually anyhow. Was it because of the kings' ages?
3. Why do the Kings of Arnor live shorter lifespans than the ones of Gondor? Access to sea air?
4. Where the heck were the Istari while this was going down?! It feels like a rather important event. Saruman was always all up in Mannish business (especially the Dúnedain). Gandalf should have been there since it was a major conflict and with a notable power. I suppose Saruman did travel into the East and at some point Gandalf to the South.

 

[Starbrow]

Here's my response to 1.
1. The North Kingdom seems sparsely populated during Arvedui's life. Maybe once the war with Angmar ends, the population can recover, but that will take many years. In the meantime, The Shire would probably be more or less on their own, unless a power-hungry king came to the throne.
2. Yes, they could claim the former kingdoms, but would they have the people to hold them?

 

[ZehnWaters]

Here's my response to 1.
1. The North Kingdom seems sparsely populated during Arvedui's life. Maybe once the war with Angmar ends, the population can recover, but that will take many years. In the meantime, The Shire would probably be more or less on their own, unless a power-hungry king came to the throne.

Hm. It's right on the border with Arthedain and they had connection (they sent archers), would the Dúnedain have increased contact was they're one of the few remaining vassal states in Arthedain's control?

2. Yes, they could claim the former kingdoms, but would they have the people to hold them?

Maybe not. It would depend on how many survived the conflict. I'd imagine Cardolan refugees went to Arthedain and might want to return. There are some good fortresses that'd be good to reclaim, even if normal cities are abandoned Arthedain.

 

[ZehnWaters]

2. Yes, they could claim the former kingdoms, but would they have the people to hold them?

Hm. I wonder if Gondor might invite the Rhovanion Northmen to live in Minhiriath. It's got plains for them to raise horses in. Also, it says the men were from Rhovanion but the horses were from the Vales of Anduin. So...were those Northmen not the Éothéod?

 

[Frandîr]

It is well known that when the Maiar incarnated and went into middle-earth they were afflicted with the ailments of the flesh. Obviously their power was diminished in a sense and their true forms were squandered.

Now, my question: why did Sauron seemed so powerful in the Trilogy, after perishing first in Númenor and then at the hands of Elendil?

Was it evil? Was it darkness? Was it Morgoth's will? What was it?

 

[ZehnWaters]

It is well known that when the Maiar incarnated and went into middle-earth they were afflicted with the ailments of the flesh. Obviously their power was diminished in a sense and their true forms were squandered.

Now, my question: why did Sauron seemed so powerful in the Trilogy, after perishing first in Númenor and then at the hands of Elendil?

You're conflating the Istari with all Maiar. Only the Istari were "afflicted with the ailments of the flesh" and had their "power was diminished"

 

[Frandîr]

So not all Maiar had that same fate? For example: Melian?

 

[ZehnWaters]

So not all Maiar had that same fate? For example: Melian?

Nope. Taking on a physical form only had a negative affect if you became bound to it, and even then it was starkly different for the Istari who purposefully took on a more diminished form to prevent them from fighting Sauron power for power.

 

[ZehnWaters]

So not all Maiar had that same fate? For example: Melian?

Any thoughts on the questions I asked in the OP?

 

[Frandîr]

I am back for my annual round of theoretical questions.

1. What happens if Arvedui lives/Arthedain doesn't fall? Angmar falls, sure, but would the North Kingdom try to claim the throne of Gondor (as Aragorn did) when Eärnur dies? (I'm sure I'll have more questions about this one as I plot out future effects).
   1. How would this affect the Hobbits and the Shire? They were apparently there by then as they remember sending archers to aid in this fight (oof, Hobbit archers, can you imagine the deadly accuracy?).
   2. Could Arthedain just reclaim all of the other three splinter kingdoms now? That would still technically fulfill the prophecy about Arvedui as Malbeth didn't specify WHICH realm. Though, him taking the throne of Gondor after Eärnur dies could still do that, though he'd be well dead by then (especially with the short lifespan of the Arnor kings).
2. Why did the notion of the High King disappear when Isildur died anyway? Was it because Isildur's sons were cousins to the kings of Gondor? That was going to happen eventually anyhow. Was it because of the kings' ages?
3. Why do the Kings of Arnor live shorter lifespans than the ones of Gondor? Access to sea air?
4. Where the heck were the Istari while this was going down?! It feels like a rather important event. Saruman was always all up in Mannish business (especially the Dúnedain). Gandalf should have been there since it was a major conflict and with a notable power. I suppose Saruman did travel into the East and at some point Gandalf to the South.

1. It could have happened just like that. And I strongly believe the Shire would eventually suffer a type of tributary decree. Much like kingdoms in our age, sooner or later a greedy King would've disregard all the previous agreements and just conquer it by force or coercion.

2. Maybe the fact that the line of Gondorian kings was so closely tied to Númenor, it might've deterr any claims from Arnor or the splinter kingdoms.

3. I definitely think the proximity to the sea is a strong factor for the long lives of Gondorian kings. It is said amongst the physicians of our age that salt water has a lot of benefits, let alone water that used to wash the coasts of Númenor. Also, might have been the presence of The White Tree of Gondor, being an offspring of Nimloth, legacy of Royal trees dating back to Galathalion or Celeborn, Tree of Tuna. Eventhough not Telperion the OG, still the closeness to the West and the royal line it descends from might be one of the factors for the Gondorian long life.

4. Radagast chilling in the woods, Alatar and Palando lost in the east. Saruman gathering information from all corners of the kingdoms of men and Gandalf pondering how to attack the new forms of Sauron.

 

[ZehnWaters]

3. I definitely think the proximity to the sea is a strong factor for the long lives of Gondorian kings. It is said amongst the physicians of our age that salt water has a lot of benefits, let alone water that used to wash the coasts of Númenor. Also, might have been the presence of The White Tree of Gondor, being an offspring of Nimloth, legacy of Royal trees dating back to Galathalion or Celeborn, Tree of Tuna. Eventhough not Telperion the OG, still the closeness to the West and the royal line it descends from might be one of the factors for the Gondorian long life.

I completely forgot Gondor had the White Tree.

 

[Frandîr]

Yeah, I feel that the lack of a token from the West in the Northern Kingdoms contributed to their speedy downfall.