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Rate the characterizations of scenes/places

rs691919

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2004
Messages
238
We have a ratings thread for acting and for characters, so I thought we needed one for the closeness of characterizations of certain scenes, events, and places that occur in the book. These are off the top of my head, so please add more as you think of them.

The Long-Expected Party
Shadow of the Past (Gandalf's revelation to Frodo of the Ring's true nature)
Introduction of Merry and Pippin and departure from the Shire
Bree and the Prancing Pony
Weathertop
Ford of Bruinen
Rivendell (in general)
Council of Elrond
Tale of Aragorn and Arwen
Ring goes South
Moria and Bridge of Khazad-dum
Lorien
Great River
Breaking of the Fellowship
Meeting with Eomer
Uruk-hai
Meeting with Treebeard
Gandalf's return
Rohan (in general)
Healing of Theoden
Battle of Helm's Deep
Sack of Isengard
Voice of Saruman
Capturing of Gollum
The Marshes
Arrival at the Black Gate (Frodo and Sam)
Meeting with Faramir/Osgiliath
The Palantir
Minas Tirith/Gondor (in general)
The beacons
The Ride of the Rohirrim
Anduril
Paths of the Dead
Wounding of Faramir
Siege of Gondor
Confrontation of Gandalf and Witch-King
Battle of Pelennor Fields
Death of the Witch King
Stairs of Cirith Ungol
Shelob
Mount Doom
Eye of Sauron
Battle at the black gate
Coronation of Aragorn
Ending(s)

I know this is a pretty detailed list, but I'd love to see what people think of pretty specific moments, places, and even the treatment of things like Aragorn's sword. Any comments you would have would be greatly appreciated also, as I'm giving a lecture comparing the books to the movies in April. Thanks!
 
Elessar II said:
Quick question, how do you want us to rate them 1-10??

Perhaps making the selection more measurable by having the ratings stand for a specific would work better... otherwise, how do we know what a 7 would be... other than better than average but less than best :) ?
 
Oh, sorry! Forgot to put that...since joxy's threads have been doing 1-5 (5 being good, 1 being bad), I thought that standard might be used. Sorry for the omission.
 
rs691919 said:
Oh, sorry! Forgot to put that...since joxy's threads have been doing 1-5 (5 being good, 1 being bad), I thought that standard might be used. Sorry for the omission.

So:

5-good
4-fair
3-average
2-poor
1-terrible ? :)
 
OK, Here goes.

The Long-Expected Party 5
Shadow of the Past 4
Introduction of Merry and Pippin and departure from the Shire 2
Bree and the Prancing Pony 3
Weathertop 4
Ford of Bruinen 3
Rivendell (in general) 5
Council of Elrond 5
Tale of Aragorn and Arwen 2
Ring goes South 4
Moria and Bridge of Khazad-dum 5
Lorien 4
Great River 5
Breaking of the Fellowship 5
Meeting with Eomer 3
Uruk-hai 4
Meeting with Treebeard 1
Gandalf's return 3
Rohan (in general) 5
Healing of Theoden 3
Battle of Helm's Deep 5
Sack of Isengard 4
Voice of Saruman ??
Capturing of Gollum 3
The Marshes 2
Arrival at the Black Gate (Frodo and Sam) 3
Meeting with Faramir/Osgiliath 3
The Palantir 2
Minas Tirith/Gondor (in general) 5
The beacons 4
The Ride of the Rohirrim 5
Anduril 2
Paths of the Dead 5
Wounding of Faramir 3
Siege of Gondor 5
Confrontation of Gandalf and Witch-King ??
Battle of Pelennor Fields 5
Death of the Witch King 5
Stairs of Cirith Ungol 4
Shelob 5
Mount Doom 5
Eye of Sauron 2
Battle at the black gate 5
Coronation of Aragorn 5
Ending(s) 4

Now, I'm hoping that you won't question me on my ratings. ;)
 
The Long-Expected Party - 4
Shadow of the Past (Gandalf's revelation to Frodo of the Ring's true nature) - 3
Introduction of Merry and Pippin and departure from the Shire - 2
Bree and the Prancing Pony - 3
Weathertop - 3
Ford of Bruinen - 2
Rivendell (in general) - 3
Council of Elrond - 2
Tale of Aragorn and Arwen - 3
Ring goes South - 4
Moria and Bridge of Khazad-dum - 4
Lorien - 3
Great River - 4
Breaking of the Fellowship - 4
Meeting with Eomer - 3
Uruk-hai - 2
Meeting with Treebeard - 2
Gandalf's return - 4
Rohan (in general) - 4
Healing of Theoden - 4
Battle of Helm's Deep - 3
Sack of Isengard - 3
Voice of Saruman - 0 (non-existent)
Capturing of Gollum - 4
The Marshes - 4
Arrival at the Black Gate (Frodo and Sam) - 4
Meeting with Faramir/Osgiliath - 1
The Palantir - 2
Minas Tirith/Gondor (in general) - 3
The beacons - 5 (not accurate to the book, but I loved the movie's representation too much not to give it a five :))
The Ride of the Rohirrim - 4
Anduril - 1
Paths of the Dead - 3
Wounding of Faramir - 2
Siege of Gondor - 3
Confrontation of Gandalf and Witch-King - 0 (will have to wait until EE)
Battle of Pelennor Fields - 4
Death of the Witch King - 3
Stairs of Cirith Ungol - 3
Shelob - 0 (hated seeing Frodo foam at the mouth)
Mount Doom - 3
Eye of Sauron - 3
Battle at the black gate - 4
Coronation of Aragorn - 2
Ending(s) - 3

If I were a college professor I would pity my students, as I am reluctant to give full points for anything. :p
 
The Long-Expected Party - 4 I loved it. Pippen and Merry were a little silly.
Shadow of the Past (Gandalf's revelation to Frodo of the Ring's true nature) 3
Introduction of Merry and Pippin and departure from the Shire - 2
Bree and the Prancing Pony - 3
Weathertop - 4 Didn't match the descriptions in the books but was impressive
Ford of Bruinen - 2
Rivendell (in general) - 4 Fantastic set.
Council of Elrond - 3, 4 for the EE with Gandalf's black speech.
Tale of Aragorn and Arwen - 4 Arwen reminds me of Luthien as she should.
Ring goes South - 3
Moria and Bridge of Khazad-dum - 4 Visually stunning. I like my Balrogs winged
Lorien - 5 My favorite part of the trilogy.
Great River - 3
Breaking of the Fellowship - 3
Meeting with Eomer - 3
Uruk-hai - 3
Meeting with Treebeard - 4 such a thrill to see and hear the character
Gandalf's return - 2 cheesy voice mixing. Probably a touch scene to film though
Rohan (in general) - 4 absolutely incredible
Healing of Theoden - 2
Battle of Helm's Deep - 3
Sack of Isengard - 4
Voice of Saruman - 5
Capturing of Gollum - 4 nice scene, Seeing Gollum for the first time is stunning
The Marshes - 3 I have a love/hate relationship with this part of the movies.
Arrival at the Black Gate (Frodo and Sam) 4 The cloak bit came off better than I had expected it would. I actually didn't think they would even try it.
Meeting with Faramir/Osgiliath - 3
The Palantir - 3
Minas Tirith/Gondor (in general) - 4
The beacons - 4 Breath taking to watch
The Ride of the Rohirrim - 4
Anduril - 3
Paths of the Dead - 1 My least favorite parts of the book or movie.
Wounding of Faramir - 2
Siege of Gondor - 4
Confrontation of Gandalf and Witch-King - How can we rate what we haven't seen?
Battle of Pelennor Fields - 1 felt anti climatic. Helms Deep seemed more epic.
Death of the Witch King - 4
Stairs of Cirith Ungol - 5 Fairly much ripped straight from my imagination
Shelob - 2 I wish she had been shown as more than merely a giant spider.
Mount Doom - 3 OK but the geography isn't accurate.
Eye of Sauron - 1 I have my personal interpretation of what the eye was but interpreting sauron himself as a giant floating, flaming eye just doesn't work for me.
Battle at the black gate - 2
Coronation of Aragorn - 3 Viggo's acting seemed flat in this scene. I do like the bowing to the hobbits.
Ending(s) - 1 I know there was a lot to show but I needed to pee soooooo bad by this point I just wanted it to end.
 
EE versions considered for FoTR and TTT, only two viewings of RoTK:
The Long-Expected Party - 4 : fit very close with the picture in my mind.
Shadow of the Past - 4
Intro of Merry and Pippin and departure from the Shire - 3
Bree and the Prancing Pony - 3 : The Nazgul scenes were awesome, the Pony itself wasn't what I expected.
Weathertop - 4
Ford of Bruinen - 1
Rivendell (in general) - 4 : Rivendell had more activity than portrayed, but the set was wonderful.
Council of Elrond - 4
Tale of Aragorn and Arwen - 2
Ring goes South - 3 : scenery shots were beautiful.
Moria and Bridge of Khazad-dum - 5 : I loved the Balrog.
Lorien - 5 : but I would have liked to have seen it also shown during the day - the evening shots were too blue for me, though the set was gorgeous.
Great River - 5 : the Argonath was better than I had expected .
Breaking of the Fellowship - 4
Meeting with Eomer - 4
Uruk-hai - 3
Meeting with Treebeard - 1
Gandalf's return - 4
Rohan (in general) - 5 : The Edoras set was exactly as I have pictured it.
Healing of Theoden - 2
Battle of Helm's Deep - 5
Sack of Isengard - 4
Voice of Saruman - ?? if you are asking my opinion of Saruman himself, Christopher Lee was the only choice.
Capturing of Gollum - 4
The Marshes - 3
Arrival at the Black Gate (Frodo and Sam) - 5 : the Easterling army arrival made that scene for me and the cloak topped it.
Meeting with Faramir/Osgiliath - 2
The Palantir - 2 : but at least it was in there.
Minas Tirith/Gondor (in general) - 4
The beacons - 5 : breathtaking scenery shots.
The Ride of the Rohirrim - 3
Anduril - 4 : while it was not in the book, it showed Aragorn making the decision to take responsibility and that was needed.
Paths of the Dead - 3
Wounding of Faramir - 3 : The combination of Denethor at table, Pippen singing and the charge was an interesting idea to combine.
Siege of Gondor - 4 : even though it did not fit my visions, the visuals were stunning.
Confrontation of Gandalf and Witch-King - in the EE I suppose........
Battle of Pelennor Fields - 4 : I love cavalry charges... even though some of the tack on the horses was farb [a re-enactors word for inauthentic]. The Mumakil were over the top, but the charge carried it for me.
Death of the Witch King - 3
Stairs of Cirith Ungol - 5 : the stairs fit the picture in my mind but the lembas incident almost ruined it for me. The visual of Minas Morgal was perfect.
Shelob - 5 for herself and the set, the white froth didn't do anything but remind me of Ian Holm in Alien... not the only parallel to those movies either - the line Sam used when he confronted Shelob was in the same tone and meter as Sigorney Weaver's "get away from her you B%#&@" in 'Aliens' when confronting the Alien queen. I think I laughed out loud when it hit me...
Mount Doom - 4
Eye of Sauron - 1 : ah, the Sauron search becon...
Battle at the black gate - 4
Coronation of Aragorn - 3 : could have been better.
Ending(s) - 2 : From what I have read, this was one of the first scenes filmed and it showed it... it was just flat, and Bilbo's size double was painful to watch.
 
I just finished rewatching the first disc of FotR (EE), so I'll give my opinions on it up through the Council of Elrond. I also thought that the Prologue should be commented on. And, also please rate the portryal of the Ring itself and the portrayal of Orcs.


Prologue (3/5)--though I disagreed with using Galadriel as the voice of the prologue, it is a personal choice. Where the prologue failed was in starting up this concept of the weakness of Men. Galadriel says that Men "above all else desire power." Furthermore, Elendil is killed by Sauron outright, whereas in the book Elendil and Gil-galad overthrew him "though they themselves perished in the deed". Gil-galad is, of course, absent. Otherwise, the prologue wasn't too bad--could have used more of Tolkien's language though. And having Elrond tell the tale of the Rings would have made sense since he was present at that last battle.

Long Expected Party/Hobbiton (4/5)--my quibbles here are small, and have more to do with the way the writers use the characters as opposed to the settings themselves. Hobbiton looks great and feels real. The Party itself is a bit too full of gags and stunts, but such is the juvenile mind of Jackson. Hobbits are portrayed as children; there's not much of a sense of that tough fiber that we hear so many of the characters talk about.

Shadow of the Past (1/5)--the contraction of time really sticks out here, and doesn't make sense regarding the plot of the movie or the book. Everything is rushed in order to maintain, as the great Jackson says, momentum (I think he uses "momentum" and "pacing" about a million times in the commentary). And it becomes so rushed that we lose Frodo's sense of exile--he just runs off, much like Bilbo did years before. And Sam is given almost no explanation of why he has to go...just agrees to leave and does.

Leaving the Shire (1/5)--woefully managed. The introduction of Merry and Pippin is another case of making Hobbits childlike. They, like Sam, run off without much of an explanation as to why they're going. Incidentally the first scene with the Black Rider, as they hide under the tree, is a direct lift from Bakshi's rendition. The chase scene to the Ferry was an unnecessary bit of Action and Adventure. Tolkien's device of the Hobbits seeing the Rider as they gaze back over the river is more believable--and more dramatic.

Bree (1/5)--actually, this scene deserves a -5/5. Rather than being a place of respite for the Hobbits, a place where they become too comfortable, it is full of leering faces and unfriendly glances. It is spooky, foreign, dark, and drab. Absent is the subtle drama of a dark figure slipping over the gate and following the Hobbits. Absent is Gandalf's letter. Absent is Butterbur's cheery forgetfulness. Very little of Tolkien's dialogue survives Jackson and his fellow wannabe screenwriters. The attack of the Nazgul is again straight out of Bakshi. The Hobbits take off with Strider without much of an explanation as to why.

Weathertop (1/5)--looked ok, but the attack was an abomination of Tolkien's writing: "Back you devils!" All the Hobbits try to do something, except of course for weakling Frodo. Swashbuckling Strider returns just in time to fight off the baddies and throw a torch at them (was that Erol Flynn or Viggo???).

Flight to the Ford (1/5)--well, obviously Arwen is not Glorfindel, but even that would have been ok had the chase not gone on forever, half of it in slowmotion. And then of course, Arwen carrying the Ringbearer across the Ford is ridiculous. And of course, she should not be the one muttering the incantation, as the river of the valley is her father's to command. Oh, and the Nazgul lord calls her "She-Elf"!!!! That made me chortle uncontrollably. What a shame they could not incorporate such moments as: "Come back, come back, to Mordor we will take you!" and "By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!"

Rivendell (4/5)--looks good. Liked the valley. The architecture was different from what I might have imagined, but believable nonetheless. Didn't get much of a sense of the Last Homely House though, which is a shame.

Council of Elrond (0/5)--this doesn't deserve a rating, it was so bad. I remember on opening day, it was at this point that I had enough. First of all, Elrond DOES NOT summon anybody to this Council. They are met there by chance, in this very nick of time! Perhaps it seems a sublte distinction, but it completely alters the nature of free will and choice that is resonant throughout Tolkien's writing. Frodo puts the Ring on a table in the middle of the Council and leaves it there! There is no way that Frodo would do such a thing. Gimli the Buffoon tries to destroy the Ring with an axe--yeah, that's dramatic. The Council descends into a chaotic argument, and Frodo has to shout everyone down to let them know that he'll take the Ring. Then they all agree that it's not a bad idea, and line up to join him, with Sam, Pippin, and Merry revealing themselve with humorless comedic timing. Then the Fellowship of the Ring lines up in two rows and everyone's all smiles--reminds me of the end of Return of the Jedi. Except we still have two and half films to go.
 
rs691919 said:
And, also please rate the portryal of the Ring itself and the portrayal of Orcs.
The ring? How so? Like did it fit the mental picture? Orcs... in general or specific scenes/characters?


And having Elrond tell the tale of the Rings would have made sense since he was present at that last battle.

That would have been a nice touch. I haven't taken the time to really sit down and watch FoTR/TT since I decided to invest in a DVD player and the extended versions - but I looked [in vain] for Gil-Galad the last time I watched the VHS version.


Then the Fellowship of the Ring lines up in two rows and everyone's all smiles -- reminds me of the end of Return of the Jedi.

and here I thought my mental referencing to 'Alien/Aliens' was a tad bizarre :D ...
 
The Long-Expected Party - 4

Shadow of the Past (Gandalf's revelation to Frodo of the Ring's true nature)4

Introduction of Merry and Pippin and departure from the Shire 2 I didn't much care for the "idiot" versions of M&P

Bree and the Prancing Pony 5 I agree with the previous poster who said that it had an uncomfortable feeling. I liked how Jackson introduced Aragorn as well.

Weathertop 4 The Nazgul slowly creeping forward with swords drawn was done well, but I prefer the strong Tolkien Frodo

Ford of Bruinen 2 Arwen didn't bother me...it was the cheesy lines

Rivendell (in general) 5

Council of Elrond 3 I'm kind of half-and-half on this one. Some of the changes bothered me. For some reason, I really like how Boromir describes Mordor in the movie.

Tale of Aragorn and Arwen 2 Didn't really bother me in Fellowship, but the scenes in the next two installments make me yawn.

Ring goes South 5 Beautiful scenery

Moria and Bridge of Khazad-dum 4 Balrog and the drums were great. The fact Jackson made Gimili ignorant of Moria has never set right with me.

Lorien 5

Great River 5

Breaking of the Fellowship 5 Boromir is one of my favorite movie characters, and his fight here is awesome.

Meeting with Eomer 5 Little bias here...I love Rohan (books and movies both)

Uruk-hai 4

Meeting with Treebeard 2 Book Ents good...Movie Ents just seem a little hokey for some reason. The eyes maybe?

Gandalf's return 4

Rohan (in general) 5 see above

Healing of Theoden 3 There is just something about this scene that doesn't set quite right, but I guess showing the "casting out" of Sauruman is an easy way to get it across to the casual movie goer

Battle of Helm's Deep 3 Loved most of it...downside is that it made movie Pelennor seem smaller.

Sack of Isengard 4

Voice of Saruman ?

Capturing of Gollum 5 Gollum's introduction was great

The Marshes 2 Parts of this seem hokey as well

Arrival at the Black Gate (Frodo and Sam) 5 Five is for the visual of the army and the black gate...excellent stuff. Using the elven cloak when the enemy is depicted like 10 feet away when they finally pull it over is a different story.

Meeting with Faramir/Osgiliath 1 Pity what was done to Faramir

The Palantir 2 I give it a two simply because it was in the movie. More hokey feelings here, though.

Minas Tirith/Gondor (in general) 5 Excellent

The beacons 5 Very nice touch

The Ride of the Rohirrim 5 More Rohan goodness

Anduril 1 Blah, blah...Arwen is dying nonsense ruin this scene for me

Paths of the Dead 1 The book mentions several times that the dead were grey...why on earth did PJ go with green?

Wounding of Faramir 4 Emotional scene with Faramir/Pippin and Denethor. More Faramir nonsense though as he rides full speed into a volley of arrows :rolleyes:

Siege of Gondor 3 Gets a three because of the orc leader (his name slips my mind) You know, the one who looks like someone melted a candle on his head...at least, that's what my wife said. With all the great special effects, this sticks out like a sore thumb to me.

Confrontation of Gandalf and Witch-King ? On a side note...why have Trolls and such break and pour through the front gate?????? Witch King alone would have been more powerful, I think.

Battle of Pelennor Fields 5 5 because the arrival of the Riders of Rohan made me want to stand up in my seat and cheer...very well done. The rest of the battle pales in comparison to Helms Deep and suffers because of it.

Death of the Witch King 2 More hokey feelings arise

Stairs of Cirith Ungol 5 Lembas makes we want to give this a lower score, but the stair itself was good

Shelob 3 Little to much CG for me

Mount Doom 5

Eye of Sauron 1 Ah, the Baradur Lighthouse

Battle at the black gate 2 Because of the idiocy of leadership. "hey, lets's all stand in a big group so we can get surrounded as soon as the host comes out" Although, if the Mouth is done right in the EE, this could very well jump to a five just because of it. I really wanted that to be in the Theatre version. :(

Coronation of Aragorn 4 As a previous poster said, Aragorn was a bit flat. Hobbits bowing was good, though.

Ending(s) 4 Like my post...a little long winded, but I suppose there was no other way.
 
rs691919 said:
IBree (1/5)--actually, this scene deserves a -5/5.
....dark, and drab.
:D
Couldn't agree more!
Did you know that PJ had this brilliant idea for the decor of the Prancing Pony?: it should look "urine-stained". (DVD EE extra)
 
Based on the ext. versions of the first two films, and 2 viewings of the last. Mostly going for feel of place, but a little characterisation stuff may slip in ;)

The Long-Expected Party 3.5
Looked & sounded great. Bilbo’s disappearance was a little abrupt. Missed G’s cover-up fireworks.

Shadow of the Past (Gandalf's revelation to Frodo of the Ring's true nature) 4
Caught the spirit of the passage, mostly.

Introduction of Merry and Pippin and departure from the Shire 2.5
Worked cinematically (a damning phrase)--but felt so rushed.

Bree and the Prancing Pony 2
Rough, ugly, mean, overdone. Nothing like I expected. But Barliman, the intro to Strider and attack of the Ringwraiths were mostly good.

Weathertop 3
Didn’t really feel the dread of the Ringwraiths. Felt like a set during the fight.

Ford of Bruinen 3.5
In addition to the departure from the text, which will always pain me, it took too long. Tolkiens text is wonderful here. Jackson dragged it out and lost the sheer intensity of the moment. But the visuals of the actual ford were lovely.

Rivendell (in general) 4
Very nice overall. Would’ve liked to have seen the hall of fire. (Thought the ‘dying’ Rivendell in RotK was an interesting foreshadowing of what might have been in the 4th age after the departure of Elrond.)

Council of Elrond 4
Looked very nice. Although the ‘filler’ men and elves felt just like that--mannequins with no purpose.

Tale of Aragorn and Arwen 2.5
Would’ve liked a Lorien flashback on the hill of Cerin Amroth. But liked the bit in the TTT flashback, for some reason, although like so many things it felt incomplete.

Ring goes South 4
Nice visuals. Liked Hollin, the sword-lesson and the approach to the Moria gate. Thought the addition of Saruman to the Caradhras pass was interesting and effective cinematically.

Moria and Bridge of Khazad-dum 4.5
Overall some of my favorite film bits here, even with changes. Stirring and intense and a nice rare combination of action, cgi and character bits. Wonderful Balrog and bridge confrontation.

Lorien 2
Oh, it felt too much like a set! I wanted golden Lorien, and a sense of distance and glory and soaring trees. It looked too much like papier-mache. And too blue! Galadriel’s pitcher looked like something from Ikea.

Great River 3.5
Too short, but the Argonath was nice.

Breaking of the Fellowship 5
Very nicely done. Not perfect, but one of the best moments in the films for me.

Meeting with Eomer 4.5
Well done. Although Aragorn was a little off-hand in his introductions. ;) Too bad that was about it for Eomer, though!

Uruk-hai 4
I liked the orcs best in this bit, as they seemed most Tolkienesque at this point.

Meeting with Treebeard 3
Cinematically, okay, but no shadow on the original for impact. But I did like Pippin’s reaction.

Gandalf's return 3
Almost there. The reassigning of dialog was distracting. Looked good.

Rohan (in general) 2
Additional viewings have warmed my views towards Meduseld, but overall Rohan stills comes off badly IMO. Again, it LOOKS like a set. Too many artfully smudged villagers. And what a bunch of whiners! The juxtaposition of Eowyn’s statement of the resilience of the women of Rohan compared to repetetive shots of cowering women and children irritate me.

Healing of Theoden 1
If I’d never read Tolkien this might have worked for me. As it is, it was disappointing.

Battle of Helm's Deep 3.5
Too long. Too many orcs. Didn’t really mind the elves showing up. Hated the ‘Olympic torch’ orc bit and the triple take on the explosion in the culvert. Enough, already. Really wanted to see Aragorn’s speech on the battlements with the orcs. Oh well.

Sack of Isengard 4
Pretty good. Watching Saruman scurry around though I felt something was missing.

Voice of Saruman 1
We didn’t really get to see this, did we? His speech to the men and orcs didn’t do much for me.

Capturing of Gollum 3

The Marshes 2
Kind of disappointing. Thsoe little gas jets were distracting. And the undead weren’t bad at first, but once again, Jackson didn’t know when to quit...

Arrival at the Black Gate (Frodo and Sam) 3.5
Better than expected, although didn’t really capture the scope of the dead lands. Liked the look of the Haradrim.

Meeting with Faramir/Osgiliath 2
I’m warming up to this--for movie purposes--and the Ext. version helps. But the whole bit with Frodo showing the ring to the Nazgul...? Great visual. Lousy storytelling. Still one of the great inexplicable bits of Jacksonian revisionism.

The Palantir 2
Not bad in its overall use and portrayal. Even thought Pippin’s fascination with it was done rather well, except that the bit where he gets ‘captured’ by it went on too long, and Aragorn’s inability to handle it was criminal. Another almost seemingly deliberate waste of one of the most cinematic of Tolkieins’ writing--Aragorn’s wrestling with Sauron through the Palantir.

Minas Tirith/Gondor (in general) 4
Lied the city, but the populace again felt like mannequins. Some of the reaction shots were poorly edited--happy faces in response to horrible events? Huh?

The beacons 5
I loved this. The music, the cinematography. It just worked for me on an emotional level.

The Ride of the Rohirrim 4
Another favorite bit , although it felt truncuated.

Anduril 2
Okay. Not what it could have been although an interesting play on the text. (Instead of sending the message through his sons he brings it himself; instead of Arwen’s standard being brought by her brothers, the father brings the sword. Still too much Elrond grouchiness. Arwen dying? Please.

Paths of the Dead 2
Initially very good, but why the extended entrance through the brightly lit moonscape valley? Once they plunged into the shadowy crack at the base of the mountains, they were INSIDE the mountain. And the whloe ghostly city bit was way over the top. More ghoulish zombie effects, oh goody.

Wounding of Faramir 2
Felt like an afterthought.

Siege of Gondor 3
Good, but again, too long.

Confrontation of Gandalf and Witch-King 0
Didn’t really get this either, did we?

Battle of Pelennor Fields
5 for the charge of the Rohirrim. Hail Theoden King!
3 for everything else.
O for Mr Potato Head who got too much screen time.

Death of the Witch King 3
Very good right up to the thrust of Eowyn’s sword. Then he suddenly turned into Margaret Hamilton in the Wizrad of Oz, with Eowyn looking as if she’s forgotten why she was there. Anticlimactic.

Stairs of Cirith Ungol 4
Thought it captured the vertiginous feel rather nicely! Liked overall feel and look of Minas Morgul and bridge also.

Shelob 4
Much better than expected. Quite intense and effective. But could’ve done without the lingering Frodo-dribble-shot.

Mount Doom 4.5
Mount Doom itself--very good. Destruction of the ring sequence went on too long, which was a shame. The power of Tolkien’s words was much better served in the BBC radio adaptation.

Eye of Sauron 1
Worked okay the first few times in FotR. Was getting tediious in TTT and by RotK was a joke. Sauron’s Used Cars, anyone?

Battle at the black gate 2
No build-up. No dramatic confrontation. EverythingTolkien gave to the filmakers was tossed aside for a few bon mots and (what a shock) more cgi trolls. BUT--the eagles were wonderful, and Pippin’s cry. Rather liked the destruction of Sauron’s forces as well, although one wonders how the good guys got home, being left high and dry as it were.

Coronation of Aragorn 2
Felt truncuated, and boy, did he look completely unsuited in that outfit. Like he was lost inside the clothes. Did not feel right at all.

Ending(s) 2.5
Too much slo-mo, not enough dialog, too many knowing smiles, and M and P back to being bouncy boys after actually growing a bit towards their literary counterparts. Ech. Final bits in shire okay as such, and ending at havens was okay, but it felt too long and too rushed at the same time.

Reading over this you’d think I hated these films and I didn’t --I was just disappointed that for every moment that seemed to capture the source, there were many others that seemed to deliberately misuse it. Perplexing!

Apologies for long-windedness...
 
franca said:
Ford of Bruinen 3.5
Tolkiens text is wonderful here. Jackson dragged it out and lost the sheer intensity of the moment.
Reading over this you’d think I hated these films and I didn’t....
I was just disappointed that for every moment that seemed to capture the source, there were many others that seemed to deliberately misuse it. Perplexing!
Apologies for long-windedness...
That's the neatest explanation I've seen for how PJ got the Flight to the Ford all wrong - I couldn't agree more, about the beauty of T's account, including its intensity, and about the overblown substitute for it that PJ forced on to us!
No, "we" wouldn't think anything so drastic as "hate"!!
Disappointment is the word, and again you've got it just right - so much of the films DOES capture the source well, and that contrasts with what DOES look like deliberate, perverse, misuse.
Ah, that perplexity, and puzzlement! So many of us have expressed them, and we still have no idea why PJ chose to cause them!
Again, no apologies needed, for such a welcome new breath of air into the forums.
 
A pattern indeed!

And thank you, joxy, for the kind words. I’ve enjoyed what I’ve read here at TTF and these ratings threads have provided a good jumping on point. What a pleasure to find literate forums.

Jackson does seem to love to drive home a point long after it’s countersunk; which brings me to my rating of the Ring itself:

5 for appearance (loved the fiery letters)
1 for too MANY ‘appearances.’ Along with Elijah’s stricken close-ups, the constant appearance of the ring did start to annoy me after a while. I kept muttering in my head, ‘Okay, we get it, move on!'
 
Finished the second half of FotR (EE), here's what I thought:

Ring goes South (2/5): lovely scenery, if inconsistent. Crebain were well done. The scenes on Caradhras were awful and overdone. An avalanche of snow falls on them and they survive?? The notion of Saruman directing the storm was silly..in the book, it was Sauron whose "arm has grown long." The decision to go into Moria seemed to be almost a whim.

Moria (3/5)--the doors were fantastic in detail, but the screenplay fails again. Frodo discovering the "riddle"? Ugh. And we can't just have the Watcher's tentacle grab Frodo: we have to make it into a big fight and we see the whole creature. Once inside, the setting is fantastic, but the screenplay is not. Pippin knocking the dead dwarf down the well is unneccesary. The cave troll scenes strains believability with some bad CGI and over-the-top fighting. The stairs scene is just plain stupid and a waste of time. Those two scenes alone took up 9 minutes and 30 seconds of screen time. Balrog was ok, even with wings, though how Gandalf managed to hold on to the bridge for a couple of seconds is beyond me!

Lorien (1/5)--looked completely fake. We only see it at night, which is a shame, and we only see it with some blue tinting which is inexplicable. Everything appears artificial and wooden, even the Elves. Everything is dark, all the Elves speak really slowly and eerily. No sense of rest and healing for the Fellowship.

Great River (1/5)--looks kinda small to be Anduin the Great. Having the Orcs running alongside the river makes us lose all sense of geography: where did they come from? Well, we know they came from Isengard, but they got to River pretty quickly. The Argonath could have been stirring if it had been remotely like the scene in the book (dark and forebidding) and Aragorn had said his full lines from the book.

Breaking of Fellowship (1/5)--too many Orcs, too much fighting; the entire Fellowship knows that Frodo has gone (Aragorn actually lets him go!). I didn't realize that incessant slow motion adds so much emotion to a movie. But then I'm just an amateur.
 
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