Thorin
LOTR Purist to the end
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2001
- Messages
- 1,428
Well....Let's see. Let me say that as far as a movie and an adaptation, this movie was the best out of all three and a good movie...*crickets chirp as we hear the clunk of dumbfounded FADs' jaws hitting the floor* This movie had the depth and emotion the other two movies were missing...best of all it had a lot more dialogue from Tolkien than the other two. 
I had three major conflicts with the film (Yes! That's right! Only three!) There are other minor things that irritated me however, and I will get to that. The major ones were:
1) Gollum turning Frodo against Sam and Sam's "banishment"
2) Portrayal of Denethor and lack of palantir to explain what was going on
3) Elrond bringing Anduril down and giving the foolish "Arwen's fate tied up with the ring" nonsense
I will rip these apart in a moment but at the same time, these things didn't affect me as bad as Arwen at the Fords. I quickly (and easily mind you) brushed them away to enjoy the rest of the movie. And enjoy it, I did! Let's start off on a positive note, shall we?
What I really liked
1) Minas Morgul Unfortunately, PJ really dumbed down the horror, fear and awesome evil power of Mordor and it's hosts throughout the first two movies. With an earthquake shaking the foundations and screaming Nazgul's whipping overhead, this scene grabbed you by the throat and made you tremble in awe of the evil and power of Mordor. Well done!
2) The improvement of Theoden's character. When he said "Why should I help Gondor when they were not there for us" I rolled my eyes and said, "Oh brother, here we go again." The rest of the time though, he became the Theoden I knew from the books.
3) Maturity and depth of emotion with Merry and Pippin - I finally saw a more mature Pippin and I was so glad. His character (and Boyd's acting) was so much better in this movie.
4) Battle of Pelennor Fields - Of course the visuals in this were stunning and I had no problems with the extras that occured (i.e, Legolas taking down an Oliphaunt etc)
Minor Irritations - NPW stuff
These irritated me from both a purist and cinematic point of view but they didn't take away from the enjoyment of the film
1) The eye of Sauron - Even FADs grimace at the portrayal of the 'lighthouse' eye moving around. And not just the lighthouse effect, but how it moved in it's 'socket'. Cheesy
2) Merry acting like nothing happened with the burning of his arm that he is heading to the black gates. He should have been decimated, but I guess with no Houses of the HealinPJ had to have him doing something.
3) Gandalf being a doubting Thomas half the time as to their hopes in surviving. He seemed to replace Theoden of TTT with his occasional potrayal of cowardice. He should have been more stalwart. He did rally the troops well though.
4) Frodo and Gollum battling it out right after Shelob. It just didn't seem right.
5) Gimli's cavalier and sometimes sarcastic attitude in the face of the ghost army from the paths of the dead...He was supposed to be quite fearful of them.
6) Certain liberties taken with factual events (i.e. dead army at Pelennor, the ending with the destruction of the ring and events centered around Shelob (though she did look good)) All these worked from a cinematic point of view, however.
7) Didn't like the way the pyre of Denethor scenes played out. Thought it could have been done better. Gandalf pushing him on the pyre was just wrong. It almost looked like Denethor came out of his "spell" when he saw Faramir waking and didn't want to die but it was too late. This should have played out like the book. Denethor was probably the worst portrayed. It is a shame.
8) Gandalf's 'afterlife' speech with Pippin. It just seemed very out of place for Gandalf to start playing Shirley McClain
Major Issues - I had big problems with this and must ask the big question: WHY??
1) Gollum acting like a third grade bully by 'framing' Sam and having Frodo tell Sam to take a hike was just wrong. This could and should have played out like the book and been better
2) Denethor was a pig, a bully and loopy right off the bat. Gandalf bashing him didn't help. I truly hope that the palantir will be mentioned or shown in the EE about how Denethor 'knows' everything he said in the movie and why he went crazy because it really needed it.
3) I understand Anduril needed to come to Aragorn, but what was with all the clap-trap about Arwen dying and her fate tied up in the ring? PJ just goes too far with liberties that, cinematically, he might need to take. (i.e. He could have had Arwen come and just assist the fellowship by replacing Glorfindel but he has her defying the Nazgul as well). To me this is another example.
Other than that, I was actually impressed with the flow and even the editing of the movie. Alot truer to Tolkien than the other theatre versions (the FoTR: EE still ranks up there as the best, but the RoTK:EE could change that).
Purist ranking: 7/10 (given the time and what they had to work with)
Movie ranking: 8/10
*Now pick yourselves off of the floor, FADs*
I had three major conflicts with the film (Yes! That's right! Only three!) There are other minor things that irritated me however, and I will get to that. The major ones were:
1) Gollum turning Frodo against Sam and Sam's "banishment"
2) Portrayal of Denethor and lack of palantir to explain what was going on
3) Elrond bringing Anduril down and giving the foolish "Arwen's fate tied up with the ring" nonsense
I will rip these apart in a moment but at the same time, these things didn't affect me as bad as Arwen at the Fords. I quickly (and easily mind you) brushed them away to enjoy the rest of the movie. And enjoy it, I did! Let's start off on a positive note, shall we?
What I really liked
1) Minas Morgul Unfortunately, PJ really dumbed down the horror, fear and awesome evil power of Mordor and it's hosts throughout the first two movies. With an earthquake shaking the foundations and screaming Nazgul's whipping overhead, this scene grabbed you by the throat and made you tremble in awe of the evil and power of Mordor. Well done!
2) The improvement of Theoden's character. When he said "Why should I help Gondor when they were not there for us" I rolled my eyes and said, "Oh brother, here we go again." The rest of the time though, he became the Theoden I knew from the books.
3) Maturity and depth of emotion with Merry and Pippin - I finally saw a more mature Pippin and I was so glad. His character (and Boyd's acting) was so much better in this movie.
4) Battle of Pelennor Fields - Of course the visuals in this were stunning and I had no problems with the extras that occured (i.e, Legolas taking down an Oliphaunt etc)
Minor Irritations - NPW stuff
These irritated me from both a purist and cinematic point of view but they didn't take away from the enjoyment of the film
1) The eye of Sauron - Even FADs grimace at the portrayal of the 'lighthouse' eye moving around. And not just the lighthouse effect, but how it moved in it's 'socket'. Cheesy
2) Merry acting like nothing happened with the burning of his arm that he is heading to the black gates. He should have been decimated, but I guess with no Houses of the HealinPJ had to have him doing something.
3) Gandalf being a doubting Thomas half the time as to their hopes in surviving. He seemed to replace Theoden of TTT with his occasional potrayal of cowardice. He should have been more stalwart. He did rally the troops well though.
4) Frodo and Gollum battling it out right after Shelob. It just didn't seem right.
5) Gimli's cavalier and sometimes sarcastic attitude in the face of the ghost army from the paths of the dead...He was supposed to be quite fearful of them.
6) Certain liberties taken with factual events (i.e. dead army at Pelennor, the ending with the destruction of the ring and events centered around Shelob (though she did look good)) All these worked from a cinematic point of view, however.
7) Didn't like the way the pyre of Denethor scenes played out. Thought it could have been done better. Gandalf pushing him on the pyre was just wrong. It almost looked like Denethor came out of his "spell" when he saw Faramir waking and didn't want to die but it was too late. This should have played out like the book. Denethor was probably the worst portrayed. It is a shame.
8) Gandalf's 'afterlife' speech with Pippin. It just seemed very out of place for Gandalf to start playing Shirley McClain
Major Issues - I had big problems with this and must ask the big question: WHY??
1) Gollum acting like a third grade bully by 'framing' Sam and having Frodo tell Sam to take a hike was just wrong. This could and should have played out like the book and been better
2) Denethor was a pig, a bully and loopy right off the bat. Gandalf bashing him didn't help. I truly hope that the palantir will be mentioned or shown in the EE about how Denethor 'knows' everything he said in the movie and why he went crazy because it really needed it.
3) I understand Anduril needed to come to Aragorn, but what was with all the clap-trap about Arwen dying and her fate tied up in the ring? PJ just goes too far with liberties that, cinematically, he might need to take. (i.e. He could have had Arwen come and just assist the fellowship by replacing Glorfindel but he has her defying the Nazgul as well). To me this is another example.
Other than that, I was actually impressed with the flow and even the editing of the movie. Alot truer to Tolkien than the other theatre versions (the FoTR: EE still ranks up there as the best, but the RoTK:EE could change that).
Purist ranking: 7/10 (given the time and what they had to work with)
Movie ranking: 8/10
*Now pick yourselves off of the floor, FADs*
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