👁️Sauron to 🧙Gandalf...or something, i dunno...make sumthin better! :p

[Saucy]

Let's not forget that at the peak of his power, Sauron allowed on measley human to chop off his evil hand.

thank you


i think gandalf stood a chance of winning,

 

[Celebthôl]

Let's not forget that at the peak of his power, Sauron allowed on measley human to chop off his evil hand.

Well, for one thing he had been taken down by two of the mightiest if not the two mightiest warriors that Middle Earth had at that time, and they still couldnt get the job done properly, add to that that Isildur was NOT a measley human, he was of the race of Kings, and it makes Sauron sound less wussy than all that. It took the free peoples 3 best warriors and cost the lives of two of them, to take down Sauron, Gandalf was in no way as good a warrior in battle as any of those 3 (he was good of course, but not as good), if u were tripple teamed, and someone went hacking away at your hand with a sword, you'd lose it too!
And its a lot to do with will aswell as physical prowess, Sauron had the greatest will in Middle Earth....arguably....(with Aragorn in mind of course!)

 

[greypilgrim]

I mean measely in Sauron's eyes. I mean the human was measley... I mean Sauron thought... Gah! You know what I'm sayin.

 

[Celebthôl]

That doesnt mean that he underestimated them he never did as far as i remember, i mean, he saw and respected the power of Númenor the first time they assaulted him, and he groveled before Ar-Pharazon to spare his life. He always feared the race of Kings even up until Aragorn, but after he had gotten the Ring back, he would have been above fear.

 

[Link 2]

Gandalf (in his lower form) killed a Balrog.

I couldn't imagine Sauron taking on the same Balrog.

I can't imagine it would be that hard for any character to kill any other character. Remember, an Elf almost killed the greatest being to ever enter Arda (Fingolfin vs. Morgoth).

 

[Celebthôl]

But as i said, it doesnt just come down to physical prowess, it involves will power aswell, Balrogs have not to much, Gandalf has a LOT, but Sauron has even more, we may never know the extent of the Númenoreans and High Elves will power...

 

[greypilgrim]

Yeah, but all Fingolfin did was cut off his foot.(Morgoth's foot)

Sauron's power wasn't tangible. He was a deciever, and spread fear. His strength was in numbers too. He wouldn't punch your lights out. Gandalf on the other hand...his power was "contained". He only used it when he had to (IMO). Also, as said earlier, he was only there to "set events in motion", not to punch Sauron's lights out.

Also, remember when Gandalf said something along the lines of him not even being tested yet, against the Witch-King when he was in Minas Tirith, and he seemed kinda scared then? Imagine what if Sauron broke through the gate of Minas Tirith and there's Gandalf sittin on Shadowfax. What's he going to do, hit him in the forehead with his staff like he did to Theoden?

 

[Celebthôl]

Wouldn't punch your lights out? 'Course he would, he punched Gil-Galad's and Elendils lights out...for good!
It was only in the film that he's scared of the Witch-King, in the book when hes the White, hes afraid of nothing.
Anyway, we're straying from the subject, we all know Gandalf would lose, but the question was, "how long would he last?".

 

[Fredegar]

Sorry to be crudely literal here, but what physical form would this confrontation take?

 

[Celebthôl]

Hehe, thats a good point! Gandalf would of course be looking like the old man, but in white, and Sauron would be...hmmm...im not sure...humanoid of course! No Wolves or Snakes this time! I really dont want to say how he looked in the film, but i think im going to have to, unless someone who has anymore information that i do on him has any ideas?

 

[Kelonus]

What form? Something fierce, terrifying and unbeatable looking. You know evil...

 

[Celebthôl]

My best estimate would be a smaller version of Morgoth when Fingolfin fought him...

 

[Link 2]

Although guys, I do remember Gandalf saying this in The Two Towers:

and I am dangerous, more dangerous than anything you will ever meet, unless you are brought alive before the seat of the Dark Lord

What about that? Is he admitting defeat?

 

[Celebthôl]

Quite so, we know he'd lose, thats not the point of the thread, just, how long would it take for him to lose?

 

[greypilgrim]

Hard to say. Gandalf fought the balrog for a while up on top of the Misty Mountains. Then he died though...and came back white.

Can Gandalf die twice?! If that were the case, where he couldn't get killed again, it would take infinity!

 

[Celebthôl]

Well, he didnt "die" in the common sense of the word, he's a Maia spirit and they don't die, only their bodies, his body could "die" again of course, after all he was sent back by Manwë (we must assume) to complete his mission, he was the last Wizard left who was doing anything (that we know of), he was needed for the victory of the Free Peoples. If he was to die again, he may get sent back, but if he was to die fighting face to face with Sauron (a feet he was forbidden to do) he would most likely not have been sent back, due to him failing his mission and falling from wisdom.

 

[greypilgrim]

Then the only way the fight could be won of course, is if Gandalf cut the ring off his finger. But since he's not even allowed to fight Sauron, as you said, then I guess there is no fight, no winner, no answer.

 

[Melian_the_Maya]

First of all, I think Sauron at the peak of his power (with the ring on his finger) would be far more terrible than a Balrog. Let's all remember that in the days of old man Morgoth, Sauron was his lieutenant, while the Balrogs were his subordinates and occasionally his bodyguards. I think that speaks for itself... Sauron would only have to send his ring wraiths and I am sure even a Balrog would begin to fade.

I think that Sauron's main strength was that of a tactician. He only did show up in the war against the Last Alliance out of arrogance. He would of course supervise the battle, but nothing more. When the power of the Ring gives him such immense power, he wouldn't need anything else, the list of allies is great enough to cover everything. I am sure that not even Gandalf the White would have been able to face all the Nine at the same time. Not fear would have made him bow but perhaps the black breath or their blades could have had an effect upon him. Sauron was not exactly your perfect example of fair play and he would use every trick he possesses to finish those who threatened him.

But direct confrontation is doubtful... Sauron was not stupid and his arrogance was a little shrunk by his last outburst. I am not too sure that Gandalf would lose the fight in a direct battle, but Sauron would never have allowed it!

 

[greypilgrim]

So you're saying Sauron is a chicken?

 

[Melian_the_Maya]

Well, we already know he was in a way cowardly, as he cared for his life more than for his ambitions and purposes (we all remember how he repented out of fear before Eonwe) and he was not exactly the most honourable of opponenets. I am not saying he was a chicken. I am sure that if his existence depended on it, he would have fought it off to the bitter end, but he would never have allowed it to come to that point in my view. He did not lack weapons in striking down Gandalf, I am sure of this, I think he just did not consider Gandalf alone more important than the Armies of Gondor, that's why he avoided sending a large force to stop the wizard.
That's not I think what you'd call a chicken, he was merely using every bit of cunning he possessed and also every means given to him. He would have called it preparation or caution.