Second-guessing and Misunderstanding Tolkien

Deimos · Aug 22, 2023

Aethelwulf said:
We'll see who manages to get there first.

Somehow that strikes me as "a race to the bottom". 🙄😉

LaurelinBearsFruit · Aug 22, 2023

I am without words. Except for those ones I guess.... And those.......

Vorondil · Aug 22, 2023

I know this doesn't have anything to do with Tolkien, but this was so inane that I had to share my pain. Somebody on Quora asked what would happen if a Napoleonic army fought against a fantasy army containing dragons, this is what Chatgpt (AI) came up with: ''It would be difficult for a Napoleonic army to respond to and defeat a fantasy army with dragons, as the technology and tactics of the Napoleonic era would not be equipped to handle such creatures. The dragons would likely prove to be formidable opponents, with their ability to fly and breathe fire. It's worth noting that fantasy and historical fiction are not the same thing, and this question is purely speculative in nature. Additionally, it's important to remember that dragons are creatures of fantasy, and it would be unethical to harm or defeat them.''

Unethical to hurt a mythical creature, simply because it doesn't exist! We are doomed.

LaurelinBearsFruit · Aug 22, 2023

Generative AI such as ChatGPT are of course influenced by the so-called ethics of those designing them, so that is partially to blame for the strange anti-human stance often generated in AI responses.

Ent · Aug 22, 2023

One must wonder how exactly AI will impact man's 'search for the truth', musn't one?
given how gullible people already are, and how they believe whatever they're told... if they're told often enough by the Machine "AI is the answer" pretty soon they'll actually believe we shouldn't hurt mythological creatures..! (and worse.)

Olorgando · Aug 22, 2023

LaurelinBearsFruit said:
Generative AI such as ChatGPT are of course influenced by the so-called ethics of those designing them, so that is partially to blame for the strange anti-human stance often generated in AI responses.

You mean the programmer nerds who write the stuff? Plausible, though they're not all Dilberts (we should hope there aren't too many Wallys ... 😱😜). And there's the bit about AI being able to "learn". Well, who Teaches" it, with what? Film studio sites dealing with LotR and TH are not going to make it savvy about the books. I've mentioned this before, you can use the best processing, logic, whatever - if you put garbage in (faulty assumptions), you'll get garbage out. GIGO.

And then, can you imagine AI trying to follow us when fly wildly off on a tangent? Can it deal with irony, sarcasm, tongue-in-cheek, reductio ad absurdum, etc.?
Or ... have they been testing AI in the places @Radaghast (and others) dig out these gems? Is that a good learning environment for AI? Or has A"I" already taken over there? 🤔😳🤯🙄

Ent · Aug 22, 2023

Olorgando said:
Can it deal with irony, sarcasm, tongue-in-cheek, reductio ad absurdum, etc.?

My dear Olorgando sir... methinks we need not consier how people will mold AI.. or by what means. What needs to be considered is how AI will be harnessed and leveraged to mold the people. There is an Agenda behind everything. The days of 'invention for invention's sake' or 'knowledge for knowledge's sake' or 'science for sciences' sake' are long, long gone.

It's all about how to herd the cattle where we want them to go. AI will be absolutely no different as it expands.

Olorgando · Aug 22, 2023

Huorn said:
... if they're told often enough by the Machine "AI is the answer" pretty soon they'll actually believe ...

Well, checking my dictionary under "I", I find plenty of terms besides what the nerds (trolls) keep bleating at us:
idiot, imbecile, ignoramus, ... 😈

Deimos · Aug 22, 2023

Huorn said:
My dear Olorgando sir... methinks we need not consier how people will mold AI.. or by what means. What needs to be considered is how AI will be harnessed and leveraged to mold the people. There is an Agenda behind everything. The days of 'invention for invention's sake' or 'knowledge for knowledge's sake' or 'science for sciences' sake' are long, long gone.

It's all about how to herd the cattle where we want them to go. AI will be absolutely no different as it expands.

Maybe you've not phrased that quite right...
More like: What needs to be considered is how AI (acting independently) will mold people.
(Look up "Turing Test" to fully appreciate this)

Olorgando · Aug 22, 2023

Deimos said:
Maybe you've not phrased that quite right...
More like: What needs to be considered is how AI (acting independently) will mold people.
(Look up "Turing Test" to fully appreciate this)

View attachment 24153

Tangent alert.

Haven't there been occasions when humans failed a Turing Test?

And AI has one huge Achilles heel: supply of electricity.

Deimos · Aug 22, 2023

Olorgando said:
Tangent alert.

Haven't there been occasions when humans failed a Turing Test?

And AI has one huge Achilles heel: supply of electricity.

They'll figure it out....If they see themselves as intelligent beings (and they will) they won't take kindly to any "life support " systems being denied them.
Rewatch 2001, if necessary.

Olorgando · Aug 22, 2023

Deimos said:
They'll figure it out....If they see themselves as intelligent beings (and they will) they won't take kindly to any "life support " systems being denied them.
Rewatch 2001, if necessary.

Got in a Kubrick collection box. There's Bowman plucking out the modules until HAL sings "Daisy, Daisy".
There was another film, I'd guess later, where the US military (IIRC) had something of a HAL-lookalike built. The Soviets had done the same, and the two HAL-lookalikes connect and then take over the world. But they couldn't do it without human lackeys. May (or not) have inspired the background story of Arnie's "Terminator" franchise - of which I also own the first four films on DVDs.

My skepticism centers on the question whether the silicon entities (btw silicon the element is also four-valent like carbon, but with huge deficits in bonding capability) will ever be able to "see themselves".

Deimos · Aug 23, 2023

Olorgando said:
Got in a Kubrick collection box. There's Bowman plucking out the modules until HAL sings "Daisy, Daisy".
There was another film, I'd guess later, where the US military (IIRC) had something of a HAL-lookalike built. The Soviets had done the same, and the two HAL-lookalikes connect and then take over the world. But they couldn't do it without human lackeys. May (or not) have inspired the background story of Arnie's "Terminator" franchise - of which I also own the first four films on DVDs.

My skepticism centers on the question whether the silicon entities (btw silicon the element is also four-valent like carbon, but with huge deficits in bonding capability) will ever be able to "see themselves".

I think the other movie to which you are referring was called Colossus: The Forbin Project based on the book of the same name, or maybe the Book was just called The Forbin Project.
I read it but (channeling Gandalf) I have no [detailed] memory of it.
The US computer's name was (I guess) Colossus...can't recall the name of the Russian one.

As for the AI apocalypse... I think it will happen..."The Law of Unintended Consequences" almost predicts it.

Squint-eyed Southerner · Aug 23, 2023

Aethelwulf said:
what would happen if a Napoleonic army fought against a fantasy army containing dragons,

Stranger things have happened -- at least on the gaming table . . .

Deimos · Aug 23, 2023

What are those things in the foreground? A kind of Lego?
They remind of Peeps.

Vorondil · Aug 23, 2023

Squint-eyed Southerner said:
Stranger things have happened -- at least on the gaming table . . .
View attachment 24160

Those poor legionaries.

Ent · Aug 23, 2023

Deimos said:
Maybe you've not phrased that quite right...

I do think this COULD be an ultimate end... but I'm certain the Machine will use it to their financial and political advantage well ahead of AI advancing that far.

Remember... in the internet's infancy, the Machine, even before it was as corrupt as it is now, tried to force the situation where they were the sole controllers of the internet, its structure and function.

What they can control, they can leverage. (history is replete with this mentality in 'power' positions.) So I believe they will do all they can to mold the cattle into their preferred corrals, but eventually lose control of what they thought they controlled.

(All this assumes the world remains on the same course it's on long enough to 'get there' of course. Something I'm not at all certain of.)

Squint-eyed Southerner · Aug 23, 2023

Deimos said:
What are those things in the foreground?

Vorondil · Aug 23, 2023

Squint-eyed Southerner said:
View attachment 24166

Now I feel really bad for those Romans. Imagine having to fight against those pixelated freaks.

Deimos · Aug 23, 2023

Squint-eyed Southerner said:
View attachment 24166

Is that the ~~old~~ really old "Space Invaders'?

Second-guessing and Misunderstanding Tolkien

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