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Second-guessing and Misunderstanding Tolkien

By the way, if one wants to see where the word orc is translated to "goblin" in The Hobbit, do a search for the word goblin, not orc.

Orc is found twice in The Hobbit, where it has not been translated.

Edit: Oh thanks SES. Much appreciated! LOL!
 
Elthir said:
Tolkien did change his mind here, over the years -- that does not however, undo what he ultimately decided upon with respect to these words, and indeed published himself.

🐾
Click to expand...
Exactly. There may have been a dichotomy(though I myself have been unable to find any information about that) before Tolkien decided to make The Hobbit part of the legendarium but that would certainly not be the final word. That goblins are the same as orcs is unmistakable simply from reading LoR.
 
Yes, and the second instance might fuel the perception that goblins and orcs are different, since it mentions "goblins, hobgoblins, and orcs of the worst description", but I think it rather just suggests different kinds of orcs. I don't think Tolkien meant to suggest different species of creature with that phrase.
 
I once wrote a long snoozer-deep-dive on the history of Tolkien's use of the two words, Radaghast, and I could go into some of it, but as you say, in the end. . . well, let's just say, in the end, Strider is not also a Hobbit named Trotter.

"goblins, hobgoblins, and orcs [Westron word alert] of the worst description"

Or translated into English: "goblins, hobgoblins, and goblins of the worst description."

 
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In answer to that silly question about why Saruman doesn't call up Sauron to ask for his aid, there this equally silly answer:
Where? Where was his voice described as "mere shadow"? 🤬
 
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Elthir said:
See Etymologies (HOME V) where the Noldorin form is Orchrist. And yes, Sindarin words can end with -st, see also Angrist for example.
Click to expand...

A few more examples (names): Aragost, Camlost, Angrenost, Belegost, Dimrost, Eglarest, Forannest, Haerast, Narchost, Nevrast, Carchost, Fornost . . .

Some word examples: hwest, crist, nost (nost "house, family" see Nost Finarfin)
ost ("fortress, stronghold") rest, rist, rost

Well, I was bored, so. Still can't find this discussion of the web, so I did this.

🐾
 

Would Frodo have still left Middle Earth if Rosie Cotton had introduced him to one of her Hobbit lady friends and he ended up falling in love like Samwise does and had a lady to help him mend his heart?

I dunno, but I'm sure somebody, somewhere will get some ideas for fan-fiction.




😬😵
 
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