Second-guessing and Misunderstanding Tolkien

[Elthir]

By the way, if one wants to see where the word orc is translated to "goblin" in The Hobbit, do a search for the word goblin, not orc.

Orc is found twice in The Hobbit, where it has not been translated.

Edit: Oh thanks SES. Much appreciated! LOL!

 

[Radaghast]

Tolkien did change his mind here, over the years -- that does not however, undo what he ultimately decided upon with respect to these words, and indeed published himself.

🐾

Exactly. There may have been a dichotomy(though I myself have been unable to find any information about that) before Tolkien decided to make The Hobbit part of the legendarium but that would certainly not be the final word. That goblins are the same as orcs is unmistakable simply from reading LoR.

 

[Radaghast]

By the way, if one wants to see where the word orc is translated to "goblin" in The Hobbit, do a search for the word goblin, not orc.

Orc is found twice in The Hobbit, where it has not been translated.

Edit: Oh thanks SES. Much appreciated! LOL!

Yes, and the second instance might fuel the perception that goblins and orcs are different, since it mentions "goblins, hobgoblins, and orcs of the worst description", but I think it rather just suggests different kinds of orcs. I don't think Tolkien meant to suggest different species of creature with that phrase.

 

[Radaghast]

Well, you tricked me into a reaction that time, Elthir.

Drat. If only you weren't so lovable! 😡
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That cat clearly thinks it's people.

 

[Elthir]

I once wrote a long snoozer-deep-dive on the history of Tolkien's use of the two words, Radaghast, and I could go into some of it, but as you say, in the end. . . well, let's just say, in the end, Strider is not also a Hobbit named Trotter.

"goblins, hobgoblins, and orcs [Westron word alert] of the worst description"

Or translated into English: "goblins, hobgoblins, and goblins of the worst description."

 

[Radaghast]

In answer to that silly question about why Saruman doesn't call up Sauron to ask for his aid, there this equally silly answer:

Although lord of Mordor, Sauron had no physical form. This significantly limited his ability to directly aid Saruman. Even communication through the Palantir was strained, as his voice was described as a mere shadow. Sauron's power relied heavily on his physical presence, which he lacked at this point.

Where? Where was his voice described as "mere shadow"? 🤬

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Hey, if you were just a giant eyeball,, you'd have trouble talking too.

 

[Elthir]

Hey if eggs can do it.

yes, I went there

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

It's a silent scream.

 

[Elthir]

See Etymologies (HOME V) where the Noldorin form is Orchrist. And yes, Sindarin words can end with -st, see also Angrist for example.

A few more examples (names): Aragost, Camlost, Angrenost, Belegost, Dimrost, Eglarest, Forannest, Haerast, Narchost, Nevrast, Carchost, Fornost . . .

Some word examples: hwest, crist, nost (nost "house, family" see Nost Finarfin)
ost ("fortress, stronghold") rest, rist, rost

Well, I was bored, so. Still can't find this discussion of the web, so I did this.

🐾

 

[Radaghast]

If the One Ring was made out of a Silmaril, then how is it made of gold?

 

[Elthir]

Well, whoever wrote that did say "if"

So if the One Ring was made out of a Silmaril, it (the One Ring) would have some golden light in it.

Or something else. See the Quenta Silmarillione for futherness.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

The ephemeral nature of Reddit makes it impossible to find again, but the other day I saw a question something like "How would the Middle-earth universe fare against the WWII US Army?".

I didn't bother to open it.

 

[Aldarion]

The ephemeral nature of Reddit makes it impossible to find again, but the other day I saw a question something like "How would the Middle-earth universe fare against the WWII US Army?".

I didn't bother to open it.

US Army wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[Radaghast]

Would Frodo have still left Middle Earth if Rosie Cotton had introduced him to one of her Hobbit lady friends and he ended up falling in love like Samwise does and had a lady to help him mend his heart?

I dunno, but I'm sure somebody, somewhere will get some ideas for fan-fiction.

😬😵

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Those ears again. Yikes!

 

[Deimos]

Would Frodo have still left Middle Earth if Rosie Cotton had introduced him to one of her Hobbit lady friends and he ended up falling in love like Samwise does and had a lady to help him mend his heart?

I dunno, but I'm sure somebody, somewhere will get some ideas for fan-fiction.
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😬😵

Oh, joy....exactly what I hope to find under the Christmas Tree.... Bodice Rippers a la Tolkien. 🙄

 

[Radaghast]

How powerful would a team of elves be that has Third Age characters like Legolas, Elrond, Glorfindel, Galadriel, Celeborn, Cirdan and Thranduil? What are all their skills and abilities individually and together? Detailed answer please😁

"Coming in 2028 only on Amazon Prime: Elf Force Commandos"

 

[Olorgando]

"Coming in 2028 only on Amazon Prime: Elf Force Commandos"
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Nine "Elves", five with beards ... helloooooooooo????? 😖🤯😖🤯😖🤯

 

[Elthir]

Five "third-cycle-of-life-Elves" apparently.

Unless one of them is supposed to be Nerdanel's father?