Sindarin translation request

[pedro_fernandes]

Greetings!
I'm currently on the process of getting a correct Sindarin translation of a phrase from the Peter Jackson's movies: they differ from the books, but since it's for a tattoo, a shorter version is more manageable.

The phrase is "Fell deeds awake! Now for wrath, now for ruin, and a red dawn!".

The translation I managed to build from online resources is as follows: "Úgerth echuio! Si an rûth, si an adlannas, ah caran amrûn!"

I've come to ask if any member could correct any mistranslation I might've have done. In case it helps another translation given to me in a forum (although I'm not convinced with some expressions used) is the following: "Certh egil echuiar. Sí adh rûth, si an adlannas, ah i-aur garan".

Thank you so much
Best regards
Pedro

 

[Gilruin]

The translation you got on Reddit, Certh egil echuiar. Sí adh rûth, sí an adlannas, ah i-aur garan is good.

With your attempt, I see the following problems:

• úgarth, pl. úgerth is glossed ‘tresspass’, not ‘fell deed’, it is used in the Lord’s prayer ar díheno ammen i·úgerth vín ‘and forgive us our tresspasses’. That is not precisely, what is intended here, I think. The Reddit version uses carth, pl. certh deed with the adjective ogol ‘evil’. There are some phonological difficulties concerning the plural of the latter, but egil is a reasonable guess (we know a form eigil, but many think that this does not fit with what is otherwise known about i-intrusion through consonant clusters). Instead of ogol one could also think about using goeol *‘fell, terrible, dire’ → certh ‘oeoel or delu ‘hatefull, deadly, fell’ → certh dhely, naer ‘dreadful, horrible, unendurable; lamentable’ → certh naer. If for some reason you think it must be a compound (I would disagree), dae- → daegerth would probably still fit better that ú-.
• You went with an imperative here. In the book, this sentence is printed as “fell deeds awake” without a comma, which means that the intended reading is “[it is a fact that,] fell deeds awake [but emotional enough to be shouted]!”. That is the sense that certh echuinar translates. Your interpretation “fell deeds [, I command you to ] awake!” with the imperative echuio would usually be written with a comma ‘fell deeds, awake’. The film is naturally version more ambiguous in this regard and in fact the Geman translators agree with you when translating Grimmetaten erwachet!, however in that case I would advise to use the word attested order echuio certh.
• The grammatical mutation that are caused by an can be subject to debate in some cases, but there is one pretty well attested phonetic rule that turns n·r to dhr, which is what I would advise for an + rûth → adh rûth. Likewise ah would cause sibilant mutation on the following word turning ah + caran to a charan. However the usual Sindarin word order is noun–adjective (together with soft mutation), so the phrase would rather be ah amrûn garan (= a hamrûn garan, written separated to make it easier to recognize the word amrûn). Aur from the other translation was glossed ‘morning’ in the etymologies and its Quenya cognate aure is used with this meaning in the Markirya poem, so it is a valid choice, but I suppose that amrûn and minuial would also work. I’m not quite sure why Elaran choose to use the definite article i in the phrase ‘a red morning’ though.

If you have any more specific quetions, feel free to ask them. An open question like ‘what do you think about this sentence’, whith a language that is as fragmentarily attested as Sindarin, tends to devolve into a discussion of all its foundations very quickly without a guiding topic.

 

[pedro_fernandes]

Hi @Gilruin
Thank you for taking the time to elaborate such complete answer. I really appreciate that.
Regarding your points:

• Given your explanation, the word úgarth it really isn't the best choice here. In this case I'll probably use the word goeol ("certh ‘oeoel").
• Yes, it was my intention to use an imperative. Since I'm trying to translate from the movie version that was my interpretation of the phrase. But I see your point, and will replect more on that (if there's one interpretation I'll probably change meanwhile, is that one).
• Once again, thank you for clarifying the grammatical mutations of ah/an/adh, I had some problems there. Also, I didn't knew Aur also translates to "morning". I'm currently prone to use Minuial. From the dictionaries I've read, it sounds the closest word for dawn

With your help, the actual translation I got (with some choices being made there) is:

Echuio, certh egil! Sí adh rûth, si an adlannas, a minuial garan!

What do you think? Any mistake I might've made?

Thank you again!

 

[Gilruin]

Two points:

• You have sí ‘now’ once with a long vowel í and once with a short one i. Both forms are attested, but I would stick to one variant, probably the long vowel version sí.
• I almost feel like minuial ‘first twighlight’ is too poetic and ethereal for this context, but of course I don’t have any hard facts for that.

 

[pedro_fernandes]

You're right, I haven't noticed I was using both forms of sí ‘now’. I'll follow your suggestion and use the long vowel version.
Knowing that minuial has that specific meaning, I also agree it's not the best term to use in this situation. I'll choose between Amrûn and Aur. Maybe the former one and use the translation you already provided.

Once again, thank you for all your help.