The buildings in Gondor

Hammersmith said:

Minas Tirith is "Tower of the Guard", and a tower isn't a city, either. I reckon that Cair Andros is a city; 'fortress' and 'city' can be practically synonymous. Indeed, it is often the fortress that makes the settlement into a city. Could someone with a greater knowledge of the Appendices prove me right?

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Using the index, Cair Andros is metioned on the first page of The Black Gate Opens but it does't help us any. And in the appendices once, It says:

He [Turin] also fortified again the isle of Cair Andros to defend Anorien.

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It says nothing about a city, but it says a fortress, therefore I say it is a fortress.

Helm said:

It says nothing about a city, but it says a fortress, therefore I say it is a fortress.

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Before we go taking the red corner and the blue corner, a fortress is a military stronghold. The amount to which it resembles a city depends on that stronghold's toleration of soldiers' families. Fortifications are, by definition, military; but many ancient settlements were walled and garrisoned for safety reasons. How many American towns began life as military posts? Fort Jefferson comes to mind (I really hope that's a town, now I've said it ).

Technically, in Medieval terms, a city is a large town with a Cathedral... of course, in ME, there are no churches or cathedrals--the closest similarity might be the Meneltarma on Numenor that was.



After seeing the Gray Havens in the movie (which the Tolkein purist in me hates but the Tolkein fanboy in me loves), I wonder that there weren't people there, except:

1. Elven "magick" might have kept them away... think about the "games" that led Bilbo and the dwarves (dwarfs?) into the spidery part of the forest...

2. Sam, in the Extended Edition, noted that the passing of the Elves mad him sad. Perhaps the glory that was, and the potential, and the fact that it was not to be, would make visitors too sad to stay.

3. Maybe the building designs were uncomfortable to humans (Tolkein's elves were taller).

4. Maybe with the passing of the three rings, the buildings rapidly deteriorated--like Venice is doing now.

5. There just weren't enough people--and in a very European way, there weren't many pioneers (Think of Christopher Columbus, Daniel Boone, Jim Bridger, etc.).

And that's also why Gondor was not expanding... "the Black Breath" did more than wound Faramir. It kept people down on the farm, or huddled together in litte stockades. The pioneers were probable killed by wandering orcs, hillmen like those of Dunland, giant spiders, and greedy dwarves, and non-aligned elves...

In the Days of the King, evil was on the full retreat, the malignancy of Sauron was lifted, and crops were better...

Thanks for some very cool posts!!

setnaffa said:

Technically, in Medieval terms, a city is a large town with a Cathedral... of course, in ME, there are no churches or cathedrals--the closest similarity might be the Meneltarma on Numenor that was.

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The definition has varied over the years. Some village sized settlements (in modern terms) with Cathedrals were historically accepted as cities, but have since discovered that they no longer have (or never did officially have) city status. There is a good (short) explanation of how it works here: http://www.lovemytown.co.uk/CityStatus/