The doom of Narsil?

[Ithrynluin]

From The King of the Golden Hall:

Slowly Aragorn unbuckled his belt and himself set his sword upright against the wall. 'Here I set it,' he said; 'but I command you not to touch it, nor to permit any other to lay hand on it. In this elvish heath dwells the Blade that was Broken and has been made again. Telchar first wrought it in the deeps of time. Death shall come to any man that draws Elendil's sword save Elendil's heir.'

Who made this prophecy for Narsil/Anduril? Usually, one would think that the maker of a weapon lay a doom upon it, if any. But surely Telchar can't have done that, since the line of Numenor didn't even exist at the time of the making of the sword (1st Age).
It is also quite hard to believe that Aragorn would simply make up something like that. Who did that then? Elrond? One of the Kings of Numenor? Elendil?

 

[olorin the maia]

Aragorn is very specific, but I wonder if it is more a grim warning to leave the blade alone, rather than an actual prophesy. Death comes to all Men eventually, and the words were not "...death will come swiftly....."
But there may be other interpretations....

 

[FoolOfATook]

Well, since Ohtar, Isildur's page, carried Narsil all the way from the Gladden Fields to Imladris, it seems likely to me that either Aragorn was putting the fear of Eru into Hama, or... I don't know what the other alternative is. Maybe Ohtar never actually touched Narsil... Maybe someone who's smarter than me can answer the question.

 

[YayGollum]

Where do you see a prophecy in that quote? Am I being evilly unimaginative when I think that he's just telling whoever he's talking to not to let anybody mess with the thing?

He says ---> I command you not to touch it, nor to permit any other to lay hand on it. Then ---> Death shall come to any man that draws Elendil's sword save Elendil's heir.

I'm assuming that he's still giving instructions to the guy. He's basically telling the guy ---> Don't you touch the thing. Kill anybody else that tries to. Except whatever specific little Elendil relations show up.

 

[FoolOfATook]

Your interpretation certainly makes a lot of sense, YayGollum. I think that the reason why people read that line as a prophesy is because it sounds so much like a prophesy, in terms of the way it is phrased, and the lines that proceed it. Still, your answer actually explains things better than any other explanation I can think of.

 

[YayGollum]

*stands like a deer caught in somebody's headlights for a second* Huh. I made some sense. Yay me! And it had nothing to do with Gollum, either. *faints*

 

[Celebithil]

I think it could also be interpreted that death will come to a non-heir because the heir at this point Aragorn would kill them. Thus fulfilling the prophesy.

 

[Mirabella]

Originally posted by FoolOfATook
Well, since Ohtar, Isildur's page, carried Narsil all the way from the Gladden Fields to Imladris, it seems likely to me that either Aragorn was putting the fear of Eru into Hama, or... I don't know what the other alternative is. Maybe Ohtar never actually touched Narsil... Maybe someone who's smarter than me can answer the question.

There's some evidence in UT that Ohtar may have been a close relative of Isildur's, and that "Ohtar" wasn't a name but a rank in the army. But anyhow, as hard as it is to envision Aragorn killing in cold blood, I'm inclined to believe YayGollum's interpretation of this doom concerning Narsil. Aragorn was warning Hama and the doorwardens to leave the sword alone...or else.

 

[Idril]

yeah - Aragorn is just saying 'no one can touch that sword but me!!! Like any other would say if you had something very valuable and necessary to the plot.

 

[Rangerdave]

So what you all are saying is that if Aragorn would have been a Chicago Mobster he would have said "You toucha my sword, I breaka you face"?

I like the way Tolkien wrote it better


RD

 

[BlackCaptain]

I like RangerDave's explanation...

 

[Burb]

Originally posted by Rangerdave
So what you all are saying is that if Aragorn would have been a Chicago Mobster he would have said "You toucha my sword, I breaka you face"?

I like the way Tolkien wrote it better


RD

hahaha!!
that reminds me of something that they would make a skit of on the MTV awards like they did last year. they could have jack black pretending to be aragorn and saying that.

 

[Idril]

yep Rangerdave - that's exactly what I meant - couldn't have said it better myself

 

[Mirabella]

Originally posted by Rangerdave
So what you all are saying is that if Aragorn would have been a Chicago Mobster he would have said "You toucha my sword, I breaka you face"?

I like the way Tolkien wrote it better


RD

LOL, I like the way Tolkien wrote it better, too. Perhaps if Tolkien had written The Godfather, I would have read it and watched the movies

 

[jimmyboy]

It could be that Aragorn meant that anyone who draws Narsil would attract lots of very undesirable attention. After all, swords like that are meant for serious battle, not for casual flashing around. If you draw that thing in front of others who bear swords what kind of reaction would you expect? Certainly most men of lesser caliber than Aragorn would be killed, unless they too were experience and hardy swordsmen.

OTOH, it could be like a Hells Angel saying, "Don't even think of touching my Harley..."
*shrugh*

 

[Goldberry]

Originally posted by Rangerdave
So what you all are saying is that if Aragorn would have been a Chicago Mobster he would have said "You toucha my sword, I breaka you face"?

I like the way Tolkien wrote it better


RD

Yes, I think that is just what Aragorn was saying. LOL!

 

[Brytta]

I agree with YayGollum's interpretation as well. Aragorn was being a bit of a weanie in this scene of the book. Earlier in the exchange Aragorn had this to say:

'It is not clear to me that the will of Théoden son of Thengel even though he be Lord of the Mark, should prevail over the will of Aragorn son of Arathorn, Elendil's heir of Gondor.'

'This is the house of Théoden, not of Aragorn, even were he King of Gondor in the seat of Denethor,' said Hama, stepping swiftly before the doors and barring the way. His sword was now in his hand and the point towards the strangers.

Good job Hama, true servant of Rohan and Théoden King! You represent the martial spirit of your fore-bearers!

Sorry Aragorn, your position on this matter is completely wrong. The Lord of the Mark's will prevails throughout Rohan, even over the will of Aragorn son of Arathorn, or any other heir of Elendil.

I'll be kind and write it off to over-weariness from the long horse ride. Maybe young Thorongil didn't spend enough time in Rohan to master horsemanship