The Left Hands of the Gondorian Kings

[CirdanLinweilin]

Do you think the Numenorian Kings/Queens had spies and Assassins?

Seems like something they'd need?

CL

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

I can't think of any assassins, off the top of my head. I'd tend to doubt their use, at least for "pre-lapsarian" kings. After the "fall", I suppose nothing would be considered off limits.

As for spies, well, one nation's "explorer" is another's"spy" -- particularly to the target! 😁

Even Aragorn acted as a "spy" on many occasions -- as, it could be argued, did Gandalf.

 

[Olorgando]

Spies without question. That's not limited to governments, spying in the realms of trade and manufacturing - after that was no longer identical with governments, say since the end of the Bronze Age - has been going on in the "private" sector for millennia.

But there is one difference: "external" and "internal". Kleptocracies and authoritarian systems (huge overlap there) may have needed (and need) more of both internally than externally. Robber barons (aristocratic or not) never sleep well.

Assassins - as in someone killing a foreign leader after the demise of the Middle Eastern sects a bit after the expulsion of the last Christian crusaders from Akko in now northern Israel - not quite so much of a threat as may be assumed. I definitely have the impression that far more assassinations were carried out by "natives", subjects of the ruler of the time, than by foreign agents. Which would have to have been "natives" in the pay of foreign organizations anyway. Especially (but not limited to) the kleptocrats etc. I mentioned above needed internal spying to keep them safe from the, say 98% of their population who would have gladly done them away. More recently (say post-WW II) those kleptocrats have managed to hightail it out of their countries before getting killed ...

 

[CirdanLinweilin]

Spies without question. That's not limited to governments, spying in the realms of trade and manufacturing - after that was no longer identical with governments, say since the end of the Bronze Age - has been going on in the "private" sector for millennia.

But there is one difference: "external" and "internal". Kleptocracies and authoritarian systems (huge overlap there) may have needed (and need) more of both internally than externally. Robber barons (aristocratic or not) never sleep well.

Assassins - as in someone killing a foreign leader after the demise of the Middle Eastern sects a bit after the expulsion of the last Christian crusaders from Akko in now northern Israel - not quite so much of a threat as may be assumed. I definitely have the impression that far more assassinations were carried out by "natives", subjects of the ruler of the time, than by foreign agents. Which would have to have been "natives" in the pay of foreign organizations anyway. Especially (but not limited to) the kleptocrats etc. I mentioned above needed internal spying to keep them safe from the, say 98% of their population who would have gladly done them away. More recently (say post-WW II) those kleptocrats have managed to hightail it out of their countries before getting killed ...

Good point!



CL

 

[Elthir]

Argonath figure -- original design (not used) by Ar-Assasen of Osgiliath.

 

[CirdanLinweilin]

Argonath figure -- original design (not used) by Ar-Assasen of Osgiliath.

I see this while listening to an Assassin's Creed song: XD


CL

 

[Hisoka Morrow]

Could ithlein rangers get considered as your answer?

 

[Alcuin]

In an interview with his former student Daphne Castell published in the magazine New Worlds, Volume 50, Number 168, issue for November, 1966, titled, “The Realms of Tolkien”, Tolkien said that Queen Berúthiel “trained [her cats] to go on evil errands by night, to spy on her enemies or terrify them.”

 

[CirdanLinweilin]

Could ithlein rangers get considered as your answer?

In a way, yeah!


CL

In an interview with his former student Daphne Castell published in the magazine New Worlds, Volume 50, Number 168, issue for November, 1966, titled, “The Realms of Tolkien”, Tolkien said that Queen Berúthiel “trained [her cats] to go on evil errands by night, to spy on her enemies or terrify them.”

I forgot about that, yeah!



CL

 

[Hisoka Morrow]

Here, I hope this helps you.
Maybe we can think about the demands for these left hands, such as politic, economic, military, and so on. As for politic, maybe not that highly demanded, cause Alcuin had mentioned the methods of Gondor's anti-corruption in the linked thread. Than how about military? We all knew the rangers. Anyway, just take my little offer.