The mirror of 🧝Galadriel

Originally posted by aragil
My take has always been that there's too great of coincidence between Galadriel having the Ring of Water and the fact that the Mirror uses Water...I'm sure Galadriel probably had some native ability that helped as well, just can't think of anything to back that up right now.

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I think that you hit the nail on the head. It would seem that there would be a conection between her ring and the mirror.

-me

Just bumping to share, found this while browsing some TTF history stuffs. A very worthwhile read IMHO.

Erestor Arcamen said:

bumping to share

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This is interesting and worthy of much pondering. (It also represents the biggest reason I'm on TTF. Education.)

Having read 'somwhat' closely, it's fascinating to watch the 'minds of men' (and women) as they grapple with things not made entirely clear - though of course to the writers, the matters often seem VERY clear.

As Obi-wan said to Luke: "Your father did die...from a certain point of view."

I have a question remaining before me from a person with regard to the Mirror.

I'll need to pluck out all the 'different statements' of this string, sort them into a meaningful whole the best I can, go back to sources, find others, and contrive some theory based on textual evidence the best I can.

One question the mirror is brought into is in connection with whether it provides or suggests a means of 'telepathy.' At present and on relatively limited information, I can personally see no connection to telepathic function whatsoever--but I've a long way to go.

It is good to see it separated from the Palantiri in its purpose and function. This seems obvious to me... and I would say the Palantiri enabled something closer to a 'telepathic link" (though incompletely formed).

It is no surprise Galadriel was able to contrive the mirror, given her skills too came to exceed her teachers'.

In any event, thanks for brinigng this one forward. My response to the questioner about the mirror has been unfortunately forgotten about, so is now long delayed. (The second response I've not gotten onto my list of questions to deal with 'someday'.) This helps push me along.

I think that the discussion here, and I have enjoyed reading everyone's viewpoints on the subject, is definitely bringing up a lot of good questions but it going round in circles in some respects. Especially around the point of Machine vs Magic, which to me seems to be arguing over semantics somewhat.

Tolkien certainly thinks poorly of Machines if taken to mean mechanical and/or industrial apparatuses. Anything more complicated that a waterwheel for instance. But I do agree with some of the previous posts that he also designed magic to be much more in the roots of the earth then it is in basically any other fantasy world. Magic does not exist in its own right in LOTR the way it does in other fantasy worlds because Magic in LOTR is derived through the Powers of the world, either Vala or Maia. Those learned in or instructed by those Powers can channel them to achieve certain ends or to imbue objects with certain characteristics. In this way magic does seem to be a form of technology in that it is an extension of living beings but not necessarily originating from them. The elves, the Caliquendi specifically, have such prowess with Magic due to their close association with the Ainur (Aule most of all) and having gone to the blessed realm, and they are able to create what we would consider magical objects by using that learning.

The Noldor especially had this knowledge because they had that close connection with Aule, being the smith and tinkerer of the Ainur. From this perspective, the Mirror could have intended properties/functions that are imbued into it and operate on its own but would also be made more effective or have its functions enhanced/directed by the user. Its like any device that it is made more capable by the prowess or skill of its user.

Whether you say Art or Machine (which I do believe is semantics to some degree), the Mirror seems to have a range of capabities that become evidently enhanced by Galadriel. Similarly, both a computer (Machine) and a paintbrush and canvas (Art) have inherent functions that can be enhanced or unlocked by the knowledge or skill of the user. The Mirror certainly seems connected to Galadriel, that much is clear, but that doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't have its own latent capabilities derived from its making.

I think it must be a bit of both. The Mirror is a magical object, or technological object (again semantics), and it also has a connection to Galadriel. Thinking of the discussion lots of previous folks have had about the water being significant, I think it is likely both because of the ring and also due to all the waters of the world being within the realm of the Vala Ulmo. Any abilities the Mirror or Galadriel have are via channeling or communing with the power of Ulmo.

LaurelinBearsFruit said:

I think it must be a bit of both. The Mirror is a magical object, or technological object (again semantics), and it also has a connection to Galadriel. Thinking of the discussion lots of previous folks have had about the water being significant, I think it is likely both because of the ring and also due to all the waters of the world being within the realm of the Vala Ulmo. Any abilities the Mirror or Galadriel have are via channeling or communing with the power of Ulmo.

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You bring up a great point! And if memory serves I don't believe anyone else linked it with Ulmo, or even a Vala.
Why do you think Galadriel instructed Frodo not to touch it?

Hmm I just read the chapter last week, and I wondered the same thing. I can't quite remember if she said the same thing to Sam or not when he looked in.

My thought was that it could be because she foresaw that Frodo's being the Ring-bearer would draw the will or attention of Sauron and if he touched the water Sauron would know where he was and possibly even the presence her elven Ring.

Tolkien used "machine" in various ways, at different times -- for instance, he once called the eagles a "machine", meaning as a literary device.

As for "magic", the text is ambiguous, as so often, but he was explicit in the Letters, and in "On Fairy-stories", which is well worth reading in its entirety, but I'll give a short excerpt:

Magic should be reserved for the operations of the Magician. Art is the human process that produces by the way (it is not its only or ultimate object) Secondary Belief. Art of the same sort, if more skilled and effortless, the elves can also use, or so the reports seem to show; but the more potent and specially elvish craft I will, for lack of a less debatable word, call Enchantment. Enchantment produces a Secondary World into which both designer and spectator can enter, to the satisfaction of their senses while they are inside; but in its purity it is artistic in desire and purpose. Magic produces, or pretends to produce, an alteration in the Primary World. It does not matter by whom it is said to be practised, fay or mortal, it remains distinct from the other two; it is not an art but a technique; its desire is power in this world, domination of things and wills.

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It can be seen from this why the the distinction is important, and why Galadriel and the other Elves were confused by the use of the term "magic" by the hobbits.

One important element mentioned briefly in an early post, and seemingly dismissed or ignored, perhaps because it isn't emphasized in the text:

The evening star had risen and was shining with white fire above the western woods.

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And later:

Eärendil, the Evening Star, most beloved of the Elves, shone clear above. So bright was it that the figure of the Elven-lady cast a dim shadow on the ground.

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Clearly, Eärendil's Star is involved; I would suggest that it was the Silmaril, wherein was caught the light of the Trees of Valinor, which allowed the Mirror to work. This power is underscored by Galadriel's gift:

She held up a small crystal phial: it glittered as she moved it, and rays of white light sprang from her hand. 'In this phial,' she said, 'is caught the light of Eärendil's Star, set amid the waters of my fountain. It will shine still brighter when night is about you. May it be a light in dark places, when all other lights go out. Remember Galadriel and her Mirror!'

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Slightly off-topic, but it's worth noting here that structurally, the Mirror episode is an example of katabasis, a "going below", in order to learn about the future. Traditionally, it involves speaking to the dead, who were thought to know the future, but not the present. Famous examples are Odysseus and Aeneas, but it's a common image -- the raising of Samuel by the Witch of Endor is one from the Bible.

This would of course be abhorrent to the Elves-- not to mention Tolkien -- so it's reasonable for a "holier" image to appear, and since Galadriel is associated with water, Fountain and Mirror are a natural fit.

The original imagery does appear later, of course, in the Dead Marshes, the "demonic parody" of the Mirror episode.

Yes indeed your point about Eärendil's Star being important is well taken. As it is a Silmaril, and therefore a living reminder of the light of the Two Trees, then certainly this holy light would imbue or enhance magical devices, or machines, with its source in the light of the Blessed Realm.

Many factors seem to impact the Mirror's ability to function properly and to what ends it is capable of producing. There may never be a clear answer as Tolkien himself often said that some mysteries should remain as such. I think we are as close to the root of the Mirror as can be guessed with inability to ask the Professor himself for more context on the matter.

Truly though I am glad to be in so good of company of like-minded lore seekers such as you lovely folks.

And we're glad to have you here!🙂