The mysterious 🧝elvish origins

[Snaga]

I just read a passage of Quendi and Eldar in the War of the Jewels, in which it said that there were originally 144 elves, in three clans (C. The Clan-names).

It made me very happy to come across something I'd never knew before! I had always wondered why there was so little about the earliest days of the elves. But it raises questions.

Are Imin, Tata, and Enel the same as Ingwe, Finwe, and either Olwe or Elwe?
If there were 144 elves in the beginning, and a little over half went with Orome, how quickly did the elves multiply? My impression was always of very large numbers making the journey. We know most of the Noldor - but many of those named in the family tree of the house of Finwe were borne in Valinor.
Which of the 144 can we name?

It is also very interesting to note the following:

The first Avari that the Eldar met again in Beleriand seemed to have claimed to be Tatyar, who acknowledged their kinship with the Exiles, though there is no record of their using the name Noldo in any recognizable Avarin form. They were actually unfriendly to the Noldor, and jealous of their more exalted kin, whom they accused of arrogance.

This ill-feeling descended in part from the bitterness of the Debate before the March of the Eldar began, and was no doubt later increased by the machinations of Morgoth; but it also throws some light on the temperament of the Noldor in general, and Feanor in particular. Indeed the Teleri on their side asserted that most of the Noldor in Aman itself were in heart Avari, and returned to Middle-Earth when they discovered their mistake; they needed room to quarrel in.

Who are these Avari-Noldor? Eol? Are the Teleri's comments fair?

 

[Barliman Butterbur]

I just read a passage of Quendi and Eldar in the War of the Jewels, in which it said that there were originally 144 elves, in three clans (C. The Clan-names).

144 — hmm, "one gross," the same as were invited to Bilbo's birthday party. Think there's anything in common? Might the number 144 have had special significance for Tolkien?

Barley

 

[Aranel]

Considering they were broken up into 3 tribes 144 seems like a very unlikely number unless it has a deeper significance.

As for the comments of the Teleri, I'm not convinced they're entirely fair considering it was the Teleri that took so long to get to the Western Shore that they got left behind! Then again the Noldor do seem to spend a lot of time quarreling...

 

[Confusticated]

On Eol see note 33. Eol is of the Tatyarin Avari in Q&E but elsewhere he is Eldarin and kin of Thingol.

I think the Telerin comments are fair enough, and its funny because the Noldor said a similar thing about them! We can look not only at what became of the Noldor, which might be blamed on Melkor (by some, in part), but also at the behaviour and attitudes of the Tatyarin Avari who were of the same clan. Hot-tempered and prideful.


Now by the time Orome came among the elves, and especially by the time Orome took some of them away, they had already been awake for many years (Annals of Aman, HoME 10). 335 when he found them, over 500 between awakening and time of departure.

I don't know of any real information on how fast they multiplied. You could only form a rough estimation based on a few things such as the information in Laws and Customs (HoME 10) that tells us at roughly what age and how often the Eldar (as distinct from Quendi in general, and even perhaps from the earlier ancestors of the Eldar) have children, and how many they commonly have. Also factor in that some were lost or hunted by evil creatures. You can also base estimations on the birthdates given in the Annals, but things may have been different there in Aman at this point in time.


I have heard the agruement that Elwe and Olwe can't be among the first 144 since they are kin. Personally I see no reason to assume for a fact that there were no siblings among the first elves, but it does seem unlikely I guess.


I am almost certain that there is no indication that Imin, Tate or Enel are Ingwe, Finwe and Elwe/Olwe by new names. As or which of the 144 we can name, I'd say that we can only name six for certain: Imin & Iminye, Tata & Tatie, and Enel and Elenye.

Off hand I can recall nothing that proves beyond all doubt Ingwe was not among the first 144, or in fact Finwe, but I'd have to do some research.

I do not believe they are though.

I do know that the ideas changed a lot through the years. For example, there was a brief point in time when Finwe was of the original who woke at Cuivienen (though not necessarily Tata), but this went with a story that no longer exists in The Silmarillion. Off hand the biggest thing I can say against Finwe being from the 144 is that to have been he must have waited a ridiculously long amount of time (relative to others) to start having babies. There is also a passage in a late essay (Shibboleth of Feanor, HoME 12) that implies Miriel was born in Aman or at the very least NOT at Cuivienen. Since those Unbegotten all had mates this makes it unlikely Finwe was one of them. I'm sure there are lots of little evidences one could take into consideration.

Interesting essay huh? I'm surprised you hadn't at least skimmed it before now, Snaga. Research for U vs. U-h maybe.

But stuff like this cracks me up:

But the form Golodh seems to have been phonetically unpleasing to the Noldor. The name was, moreover, chiefly used by those who wished to mark the difference between the Noldor and the Sindar, and to ignore the dwelling of the Noldor in Aman which might give them a claim to superiority.

p.s. Unless Finwe had a third (or rather "First") wife at Cuivienen that we never hear about. Hehe

Who are these Avari-Noldor?

Well elsewhere in the essay we learn that some Avari crept in small groups into Beleriand from the south. If you're asking as in who from The Silmarillion, I think the only mention we hear of them there is in the passage regarding Taur-im-Duinath where no one dwelt except a "few Dark Elves wandering".

By the way, did you read the Appendix Cuivienyarna? If not, I recommend it. It tells even more about the Three Clans.

 

[Ithrynluin]

I have heard the agruement that Elwe and Olwe can't be among the first 144 since they are kin. Personally I see no reason to assume for a fact that there were no siblings among the first elves, but it does seem unlikely I guess.

Some of the firstborn elves could have been 'assigned' as brothers and/or sisters in the mind of Eru, much like some of the Valar were siblings. But I agree this is unlikely.

I am almost certain that there is no indication that Imin, Tate or Enel are Ingwe, Finwe and Elwe/Olwe by new names. As or which of the 144 we can name, I'd say that we can only name six for certain: Imin & Iminye, Tata & Tatie, and Enel and Elenye.

Off hand I can recall nothing that proves beyond all doubt Ingwe was not among the first 144, or in fact Finwe, but I'd have to do some research.

I do not believe they are though.

I always found that an interesting supposition, and certainly fun to toy with and develop stories out of it. But going by Laws and Customs and other passages describing the Elves, why would Imin, Tata and Enel (a.k.a. Ingwe, Finwe and Elwe/Olwe) have remained childless for (at least) 500 years, since ordinarily (and in times of peace), the 'normal' course of life for the elves to take would be to wed and have children? This is the biggest 'con' regarding Finwe, Ingwe, and Olwe/Elwe being the eldest.

I see you noted the child thing as well. Didn't read through the whole of your post when I started replying eagerly!

 

[Snaga]

I am surprised this passage had passed me by for so long too, Nom!

I find it curious that these should be the eldest, and leaders of the clans, and yet by the time of the Great Journey they were no longer believed to be leaders of their people. Since kingship is hereditary amongst the elves, how could it be that these new leaders became appointed? While you could suppose that these leaders were amongst the Avari in the case of Tata and Enel, this won't work for Imin.

I guess Imin to Ingwe could be a progression in names - and this could be the same person. Perhaps Enel is the father of Olwe and Elwe, but refused the journey?

This is a very perplexing essay - yes the reference to Eol is another example.

 

[Tar-Elenion]

Imin, Tata and Enel are not Ingwe, Finwe and Elwe. As all of the Unbegotten awoke with their respective spouses, neither Finwe nor Elwe could be among those. Miriel was not among the Unbegotten, as she had a mother (Miriel's 'mother-name' was Serinde), and thus, as noted above, Finwe could not be among the Unbegotten). Elwe wed Melian, who was a Maia, and thus did not awake and was not among the Unbegotten. He also has two brothers and thus parents. Ingwe (in earlier incarnations) was said to be among the original Elves, but this theme was dropped from the mythology in later writings. Ingwe also had a sister (Indis or Indis mother, depending on version) and thus had parents.

I have seen calculations done, and according to those the original 144 Elves could expand to about 20,000 in the time between the Awakening and the departure (averaging 4 children per couple, each seperated by about 50 years).

 

[Erestor Arcamen]

144 — hmm, "one gross," the same as were invited to Bilbo's birthday party.

i think it says in the beginning of lotr why bilbo invited that many, im not certain and i dont have a copy sitting right in front of me like i usually do, *whacks himself in the head*, but yeah i think it gives a reason for him inviting the number he did.