The Never Asked Question

[Arvedui]

Originally posted by Shaky_the_Mohel
Was the forest of Eryn Vorn still inhabited at the end of the Third Age--and if not, what happened to its folk?

Another source from the internet: http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?ErynVorn states that Eryn Vorn could possibly have been inhabitated by that time. I know that part of ME even less than I know other places, but it does sound possible.

I am only reasoning (i.e. guessing...) here, but bear with me:

As stated in the given link, the forest itself was large enough to accomodate a number of people, and it was probably remote enough to escape the effects of the Great Plague. Also, being a forest, the harsh winters would have less effect in there. So the way I see it, there shouldn't have been any disasters that made the people disappear, unless some unknown disease took its toll.
What could then have caused the people to dissappear from Eryn Vorn?
War, of course. I am not sure how far the wars between Angmar and Arnor had any effect, but maybe they reached down there? Otherwise, I don't think Eryn Vorn should have been effected.
So, what is then left?
Natural dwindling. This could possibly have happened, and the crucial factor in determining if there where any people left at the end of the Third Age would then be the number of people who fled there in the beginning. I don't have enough knowledge to know how many there were in the beginning, but at least there were enough to be mentioned...

My guess is that there were still people inhabiting the Eryn Vorn at the end of T.A. and that they lived in peace, untroubled by the events in the world outside.


But of course, I could be wrong (as RD puts it).


EDIT: Darn it, Morgoth beat me to it

 

[Belegmacar]

I'd like to bring up a question...it's prolly been answered before and its really elementary but here goes...what race was Lúthien? She was the daughter of a Maiar and an Elf, so was she Maiar or Elf? Does this have an impact upon the long lives of Númenorian men? Sorry for such stupid queries, but I'm really inexperienced....I've just read the Hobbit, LOTR, and I'm just beginning the Sil.
Anyway, thanx.

 

[Eriol]

Welcome .

Lúthien was half-Maia, half-elf. (Note, Maiar is the plural of Maia). And no, her background has no bearing on Numenóreans lifespan -- that was a gift of the Valar in return for the services of the good Houses of Men in the 1st Age.

 

[Belegmacar]

Thanx. I'm sorry for bothering you with such trivial questions.

 

[Starflower]

no question is too trivial my dear Belegmacar, welcome to the forum

 

[Morgoth]

This might be a daft question, but I cant remember the answer. Whatever happened to Radagast the Brown?

 

[Lhunithiliel]

As far as remember, nothin was said much of him after his misfortunate "help" as a "messenger" of Saruman to Gandalf.

********
I have another question:

'Hail Eärendil, of mariners most renowned, the looked for that cometh at unawares, the longed for that cometh beyond hope! Hail Eärendil, bearer of light before the Sun and Moon! Splendour of the Children of Earth, star in the darkness, jewel in the sunset, radiant in the morning!'

How to understand the highlighted part? How come before the Sun and Moon???? At the time Earendil reached Aman to ask for the help of the Valar, the Sun and the Moon already existed! Besides, if he was called a bit further "jewel in the sunset" there must have been a Sun in order to there be a sunset....
Any thoughts?

 

[Eriol]

I think that's a poetic way of saying "Bearer of a Silmaril". Since the light of the Silmaril comes from the Trees which were before the Sun and the Moon.

 

[Lhunithiliel]

Seasons in Aman

Ibn BoLT2 in the Tale of Tinuviel we read:

Then was winter come sudden upon the Lonely Isle, and the
lawns and gardens drew on a sparkling mantle of white snows;
their fountains were still, and all their bare trees silent, and the far
sun glinted pale amid the mist or splintered upon facets of long
hanging ice. Still fared Eriol not away, but watched the cold moon
from the frosty skies look down upon Mar Vanwa Tyalieva, and
when above the roofs the stars gleamed blue he would listen, yet
no sound of the flutes of Timpinen heard he now; for the breath of
summer is that sprite, and or ever autumn's secret presence fills
the air he takes his grey magic boat, and the swallows draw him far
away.

Later however, in the same tale:

only in the rose gardens of Valinor where Nessa dances on the
lawns of never-fading green.

In the PSilm there is:

Though all tides and seasons were at the will of the Valar, and in Valinor there was no winter of death...

So, my question is: Were there seasons in Aman?
Of course, in BoLT 2 the above quote speaks of Tol Eressea, but it was close to Aman, therefore one could assume winter came to Aman too, just as it came to the Isle of the Elves. Yet those fields where Nessa danced were "ever-green"!
Besides, in ME we know about the winters and seasons in general to have existed.
How could be there seasonal changes in ME and not in Aman?... That is before the withdrawing of Valinor beyond the world?

Any thoughts?

 

[gilgalad]

I suppose the most obvious (and prob unsatisfactory) answer is to found in Christopher Tolkien's foreward to the Sil, where he states that as many of the manuscripts of which the Sil and indeed BoLT are made up had not been worked on in years inconsistancies were bound to arise.I think you've just highlighted one...(oh my god, does this mean Tolkien wasn't absolutely perfect in every way!?!Shocker!)

 

[Inderjit S]

The BoLT 2 quote is from a time when Tol Eressea is on the earth and therefore it will have the same seasons as we do.

 

[Lhunithiliel]

I know that Indy, but the thing is that even then Aman was still within Arda and Tol Eressea was close to the Undying lands and yet.... no seasons in Aman while in TEr. there are!
If we take into consideration the cosmological picture (even when it changed in the later writings) there was a large span of time when Aman should have been under the same firmament as TEr and ME. Therefore one would expect climate to be equal for all those places. Now it turns it was not!
One could say : "The Trees!!!". But that matter with the trees always brings questions like "How could anyone (except the Valar) or/and anything endure and live in the presence of the immense light and heat from them?"... things like that...
But here the question is.... Why are there seasonal changes in all other territories except in Aman EVEN before it was withdrawn from the world.
Puzzling, ain't it!

 

[Lhunithiliel]

Can someone, please, remind me whether "The Lord of the Rings" is or is not included into what is called "The Legendarium"?

 

[Minuel Lasgalas]

Can someone, please, remind me whether "The Lord of the Rings" is or is not included into what is called "The Legendarium"?

I don't have it, but a fairly good/indepth review can be found here http://www.mythsoc.org/legendrev.html

[Edit:] Looks like it is mostly HoME though, with some background references to the Hobbit and LoTR...

 

[Lhunithiliel]

Here is a new question here:

One of the magical properties and abilities of The Ring is to change size and so fit any finger.

So, the question is:

Why did the Ring have the feature of changing size, having in mind that its creator never meant it to be worn by anyone else?

Well?

 

[Morgoth]

Lhun, this is just a theory, but I reckon the ring had the ability to do so because it needed to have 'hosts' (the ringbearers- Isildur, Gollum, Frodo etc.) to make it's way back to Sauron. Without the ability to actually put on the ring, the job of the Nazgul would have been alot more difficult, and would not attract it's masters eye. That's my guess, anyhow, at the moment I dont have time to delve into anything concerning that (stupid exams).

 

[Gil-Galad]

Sorry to interrupt you guys,but it seems that there is nobody around .


So I would like to ask one really simple and short question.How did Elwe,Finwe,Inwe passed from the distant parts of Arda to Valinor,when they were invited to visit Valinor?

Even in the earlier works of Tolkien -BOLT 1&2 there is no explanation how they managed to pass this distance.

So forgive the King that he doesn't know the history of his people,but he needs some help now

 

[Manveru]

Here is a new question here:

One of the magical properties and abilities of The Ring is to change size and so fit any finger.

So, the question is:

Why did the Ring have the feature of changing size, having in mind that its creator never meant it to be worn by anyone else?

Well?

in case his "master", hungry for power, gets fat?

 

[Lhunithiliel]

Lhun, this is just a theory, but I reckon the ring had the ability to do so because it needed to have 'hosts' (the ringbearers- Isildur, Gollum, Frodo etc.) to make it's way back to Sauron. Without the ability to actually put on the ring, the job of the Nazgul would have been alot more difficult, and would not attract it's masters eye. That's my guess, anyhow, at the moment I dont have time to delve into anything concerning that (stupid exams).

It can be, but only if the Ring is taken as sa entient being, which I personally somehow doubt.
But .... well, what can be impossible in a fantasy world ?!!!

in case his "master", hungry for power, gets fat?

How did Elwe,Finwe,Inwe passed from the distant parts of Arda to Valinor,when they were invited to visit Valinor?

Even in the earlier works of Tolkien -BOLT 1&2 there is no explanation how they managed to pass this distance.

Hmmm... I think there's a lot said about the Great Journey of the hosts of the Firstborn from the Lake of Awakening to the shores, and how some were lost on the way, and how others were delayed, and how Orome led them... I'm quite positive, GG.
To answer directly your question, I'd say .... walking "My dear Watson."

 

[Gil-Galad]

I mean not the journey of all evles,but the one of Elwe,Finwe,Inwe.How did they pass the distance between the West shores of Arda and Aman?

That's my question.We have lots of information about the journey of the elves but not about the one of their leaders.