The Skill of the Skin-Changers

[Eriol]

Hurray Glorfindel, well done for finding a chink in my memory

That, I think, is Gandalf's explanation for Bilbo's benefit. I thought Celebthôl wanted "the real thing", Tolkien's last word about Beorn. Of course the opinion of the characters, even extremely wise (Gandalf), is not unimpeachable... and the quote is really vague What he is really saying is "I don't know". It would not be good for the book to bring Beorn in without SOME kind of theory about him...

The "I've read more Tolkien" line was just to identify myself, since I have not posted a lot and am a newcomer to the Forum. I was trying to reassure Celebthôl that I am not a kid that just saw the movie, and is finishing the reading of "The Return of the King"... I was not trying to impose my opinion, and as I said, many members of the Forum have read more Tolkien than me. But we are not here to measure "Tolkien points", just to share and learn, right? Oh, and to have fun!

See ya!

 

[Celebthôl]

Thanx i a had forgotten this yes it did help

Celeb

 

[Ancalagon]

Well, I would think that if you were reading this now you would realise the error of your ways

Always liked this thread, just thought more people might add to it!

 

[Ariana Undomiel]

If I remember correctly, Beorn was a man with the ability to change into a great bear. But he was not alone in this ability. He had sons who kept his lands for him and , if I am not much mistaken, they came to the fields of Cormallon to fight in the final battle against Mordor. I cannot find where it mentions it in the book, but does anyone else remember reading this?

~Ariana

 

[Eriol]

Well, this is a nice thread, and in the debate that took place months ago I think Ancalagon's 'Mowgli' theory is the best I've ever seen to explain what was to me one of the mysteries of ME. But regarding Beorn's possible blood relation to Beren... Eluréd and Elurín were lost in the woods of Doriath, and not killed (directly) by the sons of Feänor. It says in the Silmarillion, if I am not mistaken, that "these tales do not tell what happened to them". Well, we usually presume that they died in the woods, being very young, but still... if it could happen with Mowgli and Beorn, why not one of the twins?

That said, I still think it extremely unlikely, and Ancalagon's theory is still the best.

Ariana -- don't you mean the Battle of Five Armies? After all, there were enough battles in the North, they wouldn't have to go to the Black Gate to pick a fight. Sorry, I don't remember reading about it

 

[Ancalagon]

I still contend that Eluréd and Elurín founded Rome...which is one of my more outlandish theories

 

[Tumunzahar]

What about this :

A Maia of the people of Yavanna remained in ME for his love of the wide forests and their inhabitants. He especially loved bears and delighted in assuming thier shape. One day he fell in love with woman, a descendant of one of the houses of the Edain, and they had a son : Beorn.

Beorn being primarily a Man inherited some powers of his Maian father.

Just a thought, don't shoot me

 

[Eledhwen]

OK, except that Tolkien said in a letter that Beorn was just a man. If Beorn had any Maia parentage it would have been mentioned in that explanation, and we would have had some backstory like the marriage of Thingold and Melian. We haven't enough written evidence to say for certain where Beorn's gift came from, but I think the first part of this thread covers pretty much all the possibilities.

 

[YayGollum]

Why do you assume that if Beorn had any Ainur types of parents, that it would have been mentioned anywhere? Obviously, this Tolkien person did not spend a lot of time worrying about every piddly little thing about his Beorn character. Even though the guy is a superly cool character. Hm. I wonder why I never noticed this thread before. oh well. You people with your other theories that the Tolkien person never mentioned and that lots agree with each other about. Why not concede that the Beorn character could have also had an Ainur type of parent? Some random spirit of a bear shows up, has a kid, yes, the kid is called a human, but then, there were other half breed types of things that chose to just be one race, some of them human. Beorn must have done that and retained some crazy and achingly evil and unfair shapeshifting powers. The other half breed types of things retain achingly evil and unfair attributes of the other race even when they choose to be human, so why not Beorn, too? Also, where can I hear about this crazy other theory on the founding of Rome?

 

[Eledhwen]

I think that when two races were joined by a marriage, Tolkien made a big thing of it, with family trees in the Appendices and so on. But maybe you're right - he just didn't have the time to develop the Beornings, which he couldn't shoehorn back into the story after 'The Hobbit', giving them only a brief compliment in the Council of Elrond.

 

[Alatar]

The men of the vales of anduin (twlight men) had a village in the mountains this village wqas removed from all others and the men there befreinded the great bears, the great and ancient bears of the mountains that lived there before the giants came, then the goblins atacked Bereon is the only survivior he is very young. The bears look after him he becomes big and strong and he lerns to take there shape (Radgast helped) till the goblins atack Beorn is the only one leeft again so the leaves the mountains.
Good theory?

 

[Eledhwen]

There is a thread called "Other Hands" in the Glittering Caves, where the stories Tolkien never wrote are filled in. I suggest you tell the story in full there; it sounds interesting.

 

[YayGollum]

just because this Tolkien person seemed to be making a large deal over a few times that different races had children with each other doesn't mean that he had to do so every time. How many does this Tolkien person even mention? Not very many, from what I have read. Also, the Beorn dude and any crazy relatives that he had were always kind of mysterious. The Tolkien person didn't write about them much. Obviously, he did not check and recheck every nuance of every character in every story of his. It seems to me to be achingly likely that other strange joinings could have taken place in regions of Middle Earth that didn't matter too much to the rest of the stories at the time.

Anyways, Alatar person, I would call that a good theory, except for a few things that I happen to think make the theory more interesting. The great bears that you write about are actually Ainur types who take the shape of bears. Also, why have Radagast be there to help? If Beorn is half human and half crazy bear Ainur thing, shapeshifting would be a lot more natural for the guy. Sure, the Radagast guy could hear a bit about a crazy werebear thing and check up and the dude. Why not?

 

[Arbor]

Interesting stories. Could somebody please tell me, who in the English folklor has the same functions as Beorn? In slavanik folklor there is such character: he also knows how to speak with animals, lives in forest and can turn into animal, usualy wolf.