Thoughts on the Ringwraiths

[Anamatar IV]

does anyone know who the ring wraiths are? Like which kings?

 

[Gildor the Elf]

I'm sorry, I can't say the site. It has a big black thing covering its body , sword and a rope in the belly.

 

[Anamatar IV]

no, i mean which numenorean kings were corrupted by the rings of power and became the ringwraiths.

 

[Gamil Zirak]

The leader of the Nazgul was the Witch King of Angbar. We don't really know who the others where. It's not stated, and there really isn't a missing Numenorian king in the lineage from Tolkien's works.

 

[Bombadillo]

ehm, just a thought, if your king sits in his chair, old and weak, and you blink whit youre eye and he is suddenly in the ghostworl, and therefore invisible, wouldn't you think your king is dead? so no numenorian king has to be "missing" in the lineage.

 

[Gamil Zirak]

The nine rings didn't make you invisible imediately like the one ring did. It took years for that to take place.

 

[pohuist]

I don't think they were all Numenorean Kings.

 

[Gamil Zirak]

I think most of them weren't, but we don't even know who any of them are.

 

[Ceorl]

Well we know that the Lord of the Nazgul was the Witch-King of Angmar, and that his second in command and captain of Dol Guldur was:

Khamul, the Shadow of the East

from whcih we assume that he was one of the men out of Rhun of Far Harad. We do know however that there were some of the Black Numenoreans caught by Sauron through the us of the nine although I cannot find the exact quote at the moment.

 

[Ringwraith VIII]

Ok, I think the Ringwraith are one of the coolest things in the LotR. Anyone else like the Ringwraiths/Nazgul/Black Riders?

 

[pohuist]

Here is the quote you are looking for

As you know, that city
was once a strong place, proud and fair, Minas Ithil, the twin sister of our
own city. But it was taken by fell men whom the Enemy in his first strength
had dominated, and who wandered homeless and masterless after his fall. It
is said that their lords were men of Numenor who had fallen into dark
wickedness; to them the Enemy had given rings of power, and he had devoured
them: living ghosts they were become, terrible and evil. After his going
they took Minas Ithil and dwelt there, and they filled it, and all the
valley about, with decay: it seemed empty and was not so, for a shapeless
fear lived within the ruined walls. Nine Lords there were, and after the
return of their Master, which they aided and prepared in secret, they grew
strong again.

(emphasis added)

There are 2 different ways to read this quote -- first: that all wraith were Numenoreans (Men of Numenor, Nine Lords)
Second: not all were Numenoreans (took Minas Ithil and dwelt there)

My personal reading is the second: not all ringwraiths lived in Minas thil. My vague recollection from UT is that there were only five. Khamul had another 2 with him in Dol Guldur and the 9th was in Barad Dur, a sort of errand runner. I may be wrong on numbers, but definitely not all 9 were in Minas Ithil. And I leave to Grond or someone else learned in Ringwraith lore to post on the origins of the Witch King. I am not convinced he was of Numenorean descent either.

As a side note, there was a discussion on another thread why Gothmog, lietenant of Mordor, and not Khamul (the second Nazgul in command) led the Enemy troops in the Battle of Pelennor fields after the Chief Nazgul was slain. Does it say anywhere that Khamul was actually present there. Weren't there only 5 of them?

 

[Gamil Zirak]

There are pretty cool, but they were under-utilized by Sauron. That's my humble opinion anyway.

 

[HobbitGirl]

I think the Nazgul are just plain scary, but they could be cool if you looked at them that way.

 

[Khamul]

Well, you should join the Dark Legion then!!

 

[WhiteRingwraith]

I thought that Ringwraiths where soo cool in movie.AAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Grond]

The Ringwraiths sucked. If you really wanted to see the greatest servants of evil, you'd need to go back a few thousand years. Where Sauron had some little Men turned Wraiths, Melkor had Balrogs and Dragons and Werewolves and Vampires at his beck and call. Let's see...

Ringwraith vs. Balrog
Err... Umm... I'll take the Balrog.

Ringwraith vs. Dragon
Err... Umm... I'll take the Dragon

Ringwraith vs. Werewolf
Err... Umm... I'll take the Werewolf.

Ringwraith vs. Vampire
Err... Umm... Ok, this one might be a draw.

 

[Dwimmerlaik]

I would opt for Pohuist's second option.We know that Chief of the ringwraiths came North after Sauron's fall and created a kingdom(using any and all that flocked to him)with the express purpose of creating disunity and chaos in the ranks of his master's enemies.
It was in this capacity that he became known as the Witch King of Angmar.
Only three of the Nazgul were of theNumenorean race.

 

[Dwimmerlaik]

In answer to Pohuist's question,I think Sauron intented to use the Nazgul as his reserve.I don't think he thought they were needed,but as his number one was unexpectedly killed during the assault on Minas Tirith,he may have thought it prudent to use them only at need.
I don't know how many Nazgul were at the battle,but that weren't present were probably spread between Minas Morgul and other patrolling duties.
Gothmog may have led the forces of Mordor because he was either:
#1-on trial after the disaster of the assault on Minas Tirith,
#2-on trial to test his suitability for high rank after Sauron's victory,
#3-Sauron's lieutenant and therfore(after the Nazgul)the most reliable,
I think the third option was more likely if you couple that with my theory concerning the Nazgul.

 

[Galadhwen]

Ok. I thought the Nazgul were in part Dark Numenorean lords, and some east men. Wasn't Numenor drowned by the time of the forging of the Rings?

 

[Lantarion]

Yes, it was.