lol Goodness no. Disney isn't all-powerful yet. This was simply Galadriel in a stereotypical "Disney Princess" art-style.
Oh good. Thank you. Don't want to derail the thread here... but well... i had to be sure. I do hope I pass on before they manage to get their clutches into his work.lol Goodness no.
The Pauline Baynes map is very interesting, since Tolkien had commented on it (or a copy of his own map) before publication with suggestions for improvement. But whether he had seen these illustrations beforehand is unclear to me. Would be interesting to know...The Pauline Baynes map of (I think)1970:
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Closeups of the inset pictures:
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Unfortunately we don't learn much more there either, but Elthir, the Cat in a Coat, seems to know more about it?There's some discussion here:
Post in thread 'Tolkien Book Covers' https://thetolkien.forum/threads/tolkien-book-covers.28961/post-544144
He did. It's discussed in NoME. He goes into detail about each of the characters and the images of locations. He was bewildered by the Ringwraiths having hats.
Hehe, yes they look a bit like Zorro. With the feathers even almost like gentlemen. 😄He was bewildered by the Ringwraiths having hats.
lol Which is VERY anachronistic in terms of fashion. Apparently Gandalf is short. He didn't like Gollum or Shelob either. Barad-dûr was accurate, I guess. I liked it the most. I forget which others he liked and disliked.Hehe, yes they look a bit like Zorro. With the feathers even almost like gentlemen. 😄
Yes, at least his feet are in the same position as the guy to his left, whoever that may be. That's why he seems to be too small.Apparently Gandalf is short.
Gollum looks like a mummy. 😄
Yes, definitely fits the description. Although I like John Howe's version better. (The original version without the eye from the PJ movies).Barad-dûr was accurate, I guess.
Well, Tolkien does say he's short and bent with age and care but no LESS than 5'6".Yes, at least his feet are in the same position as the guy to his left, whoever that may be. That's why he seems to be too small.
He looks like some kind of fish creature. I can't get a good look as it's too small.Gollum looks like a mummy. 😄
He found her too spindly and was confounded as to why her legs seemed to be coming out of her head.Shelob I personally still find quite okay: Looks poisonous and disgusting. What did Tolkien not like about it?
Same, though I believe LotR describes the top of the tower having a room with a window that Sam and Frodo saw briefly. Though the text also describes the top of the tower as being enswathed with clouds/smoke.Yes, definitely fits the description. Although I like John Howe's version better. (The original version without the eye from the PJ movies).
I agree. The Argonath look AWFUL to me. Also they're on pedestals in the middle of the river instead of in the cliffs. Tolkien also didn't like Minas Tirith.What I don't like that much either:
- Argonath - they look like toys
- Minas Tirith - there is no town in the lower levels
Everything else is more or less ok.
Thanks for those photos, that's very enlightening.Aragorn is about 6'6", Boromir 6'4". Eldar women are rarely shorter than 6', the men no shorter than 6'6".
Gollum is pale, yes, but he is clothed and has a pocket that he kept the Ring in. His clothes were ragged and black.
Shelob has horns (he brings this up both in LotR and in his reply here). She's black with a luminous (from corruption) underbelly
Counter-counter argument: Sauron made it with his Ring and the foundations couldn't even be destroyed until it was.As for Barad-dur, while I think the skyscraper-like, slim and tall illustraions are cooler, here's what I came up with as a counter-argument:
The pyramid-shaped, wider form is probably more earthquake-resistant, and there were probably relatively many of those in this volcanic area...
Apparently it means it's held together by his will? So I guess that would have meant it would have collapsed if someone else seized the Ring as well.Keep in mind that he built Barad-dur "with the power of the Ring". Whatever that means.
I assume you mean a non-hobbit -- otherwise, it would be gone. 😄Apparently it means it's held together by his will? So I guess that would have meant it would have collapsed if someone else seized the Ring as well.
Not by him, to my knowledge. His drawings are sometimes...not size accurate (in regards to large things, see his sketches of the world). Still, this drawing makes the base of the tower look quite large. I count roughly 21 floors just in the shot and it's clearly not the whole thing either high or wide.Yes, Tolkien also writes that the base of the tower could not be destroyed, which suggests that the foundation may have provided enough earthquake resistance.
What puzzles me, however, is this drawing of Tolkien himself:
This gives the impression that Barad-dur is quite a big castle, but not somehow outstandingly large...
His descriptions in The Lord of the Rings are much more imposing. We know that Tolkien also often revised his drawings...
Are there any other drawings of the Dark Tower?
Allow me to rephrase. Seize OWNERSHIP of the Ring from Sauron. Like, take total control of it, not just take it physically.
That's true, but if you assume that the gate in the center right is the main entrance, then the tower would be comparatively small. Of course, it could also be a side entrance, but if you look at the picture on its own, this would be unlikely. However, looking at the textual descriptions, it can actually only be a side entrance. From this point of view, I think that this picture rather shows an early and too small version of Barad-dur.This shows only a corner of the base. We don't know what percentage of the whole it represents.
Is it known which year this picture is from?From this point of view, I think that this picture rather shows an early and too small version of Barad-dur.
---Fellowship of the Ring, p. 527
—Vision of Samwise Gamgee from the downfall of Barad-DûrA brief vision he had of swirling cloud, and in the midst of it towers and battlements, tall as hills, founded upon a mighty mountain-throne above immeasurable pits; great courts and dungeons, eyeless prisons sheer as cliffs, and gaping gates of steel and adamant: and then all passed. Towers fell and mountains slid; walls crumbled and melted, crashing down; vast spires of smoke and spouting steams went billowing up, up, until they toppled like an overwhelming wave, and its wild crest curled and came foaming down upon the land. And then at last over the miles between there came a rumble, rising to a deafening crash and roar; the earth shook, the plain heaved and cracked, and Orodruin reeled.
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