United Artists is only thing blocking The Hobbit movie

[NetherDemon]

Hmm. How do you know this? I'm not doubting you, I just want to know where you picked it up that CT is "just a benefactor." Considering the enormous amount of work he did on his father's work in getting them ready for press, I'd say he is indeed a curator. If MY father had put out a body of work like Tolkien's, and I was responsble for them, you can bet I'd be VERY protective of them.

Lotho

I just don't think Chris Tolkien should be deciding what works JRR Tolkien wrote should be allowed to be adapted to film. If he want's to protect the books from being re-written or altered on paper, then fine. But the movies are a different format. They don't have the phrase "Tolkien Approved" or "Official Tolkien Merchandise" stamped on them anywhere. They are based on his books.

The fans of the books should be the people deciding whether the movies are warranted. - And with over 2 Billion in movie ticket sales worldwide, not including the DVD sales, I'd say the fans made their opinion loud and clear. A handful of Purists, and Chris Tolkien should not be deciding what the millions of LOTR an Hobbit fans get to see.

 

[Bucky]

The Hobbit will certainly generate millions of dollars and PJ would not have the issues he had in LOTR to deal with, since the Hobbit is less dynamic and focuses on one continuous plot line. I look forward to it.

Well, that's what I've been telling 'The Fam' since I've been hearing about this possible movie last month.......

It's only 287 pages, not 1300+, so it's much less in need of being changed.

The only things I could see being changed might be Beorn - I don't know why but that whole chapter just seems too 'fairy-tale-ish compared to the rest of the story to me - plus probably Bilbo singing the songs to the spiders to infuriate them for the same reason. Does "Lazy lob, crazy cob" come off on screen as something to throw a huge shelob-like spider into a rage?

BUT, is PJ willing to follow the story & kill off THE dragon a half hour before the movie ends with a single arrow & then have the Battle Of The Five Armies take place?

Knowing PJ, I could see the climax being 'The Battle Of The Five Armies And One Dragon'.........


But I agree - and I'm STILL TOTALLY confused as to who owns the rights - if it's just UA vs New Line or really anything except except CT saying "I don't want my father's work disparaged", it will get done because there's too much $$$$$ to be made & that's why these folks are in the movie biz......

 

[Gandalf White]

Well as long as their keeping the rights away from PJ they're doing something good.

Speaking of brick walls, eh Nether?

Anyway, I don't want to see the Hobbit done. To me it just doesn't seem like it would work in a movie.

 

[Eledhwen]

The Hobbit will certainly generate millions of dollars and PJ would not have the issues he had in LOTR to deal with, since the Hobbit is less dynamic and focuses on one continuous plot line. I look forward to it.

There's a lot more suggested in The Hobbit that could be written into a film. For instance, a plot line could follow Gandalf to the final White Council at Rivendell, then to the cleansing of Dol Guldur (some Galadriel/Lothlorien here) which, like in LotR, Gandalf hoped would distract the Necromancer from the little hobbit passing by. And another could follow the build of up the Orcs and Wargs in preparation for the Battle of the Five Armies. Also, there is that wonderful piece in Unfinished Tales where Gandalf meets Thorin and suggests he takes a Hobbit with him. It would make a great film, if it was done properly.

 

[NetherDemon]

There's a lot more suggested in The Hobbit that could be written into a film. For instance, a plot line could follow Gandalf to the final White Council at Rivendell, then to the cleansing of Dol Guldur (some Galadriel/Lothlorien here) which, like in LotR, Gandalf hoped would distract the Necromancer from the little hobbit passing by. And another could follow the build of up the Orcs and Wargs in preparation for the Battle of the Five Armies. Also, there is that wonderful piece in Unfinished Tales where Gandalf meets Thorin and suggests he takes a Hobbit with him. It would make a great film, if it was done properly.

True - and if PJ had alot of room in the movie, he could try to develop some of Tolkien's less developed stories. Then again, all it would do is tick off purists again (see Arwen & Aragorn in LOTR).

As for a previous poster, I don't think the kiling of Smaug followed by the big battle would be anti-climatic, as long as PJ keeps that conflict as a possibility throughout the latter half of the movie. If he just springs it on us out of nowhere, then it would be bad. But if he get's the dwarves talking about it during the quest to reclaim the hall and Gandalf and Bilbo have a few asides warning about the possibility of a conflict for control of the moutain after Smaug's demise, then it would be great!

And we could get one last major WETA battle!

 

[Barliman Butterbur]

There's a lot more suggested in The Hobbit that could be written into a film. For instance, a plot line could follow Gandalf to the final White Council at Rivendell, then to the cleansing of Dol Guldur (some Galadriel/Lothlorien here) which, like in LotR, Gandalf hoped would distract the Necromancer from the little hobbit passing by. And another could follow the build of up the Orcs and Wargs in preparation for the Battle of the Five Armies. Also, there is that wonderful piece in Unfinished Tales where Gandalf meets Thorin and suggests he takes a Hobbit with him. It would make a great film, if it was done properly.

I will make a prediction: Someone — PJ or someone else — will make a film of The Hobbit, and The Battle of the Boards here will go on with fresh fuel!

(I came here after the films were in theaters. What was it like here BEFORE there was ever word of Peter Jackson?)

Lotho

 

[NetherDemon]

I will make a prediction: Someone — PJ or someone else — will make a film of The Hobbit, and The Battle of the Boards here will go on with fresh fuel!

(I came here after the films were in theaters. What was it like here BEFORE there was ever word of Peter Jackson?)

Lotho

I don't know. I came across this forum just before The Two Towers were released, but never really posted anything. Then when purists started whining about Faramir, I felt like chiming in to defend PJ. Been here defending PJ and the movies ever since!

I'm sure all the Purists hate me by now, or just see me as some fickle movie-lover with no respect for the books, but they have no clue about me.

Nor do I care!

 

[Foe-Hammer]

I will make a prediction: Someone — PJ or someone else — will make a film of The Hobbit, and The Battle of the Boards here will go on with fresh fuel!

(I came here after the films were in theaters. What was it like here BEFORE there was ever word of Peter Jackson?)

Lotho

I'm sure that when news of this project was released, the npw's were foolishly hoping the movie would follow the book verbatim. And like everthing else connected with the books this site was probably stagnating until that time. More than 2/3 of the people posting on the movie thread are fads, so it's likely that they didn't spend their life here.

 

[NetherDemon]

I'm sure that when news of this project was released, the npw's were foolishly hoping the movie would follow the book verbatim. And like everthing else connected with the books this site was probably stagnating until that time. More than 2/3 of the people posting on the movie thread are fads, so it's likely that they didn't spend their life here.

Yup - and I'll bet a few months after the ROTK Extended Editon is released, and if there is no sign of the Hobbit making it to the screen, this site will slowly fade back to getting maybe a few dozen GOOGLE hits a day and the occasional Purist chit-chat.

There simply won't be anthing to talk about, complain about or defend after that.

 

[Eledhwen]

True - and if PJ had alot of room in the movie, he could try to develop some of Tolkien's less developed stories. Then again, all it would do is tick off purists again (see Arwen & Aragorn in LOTR).

And we could get one last major WETA battle!

As (I presume) most of the purists have read the background stuff, there would be no problem with adding what I've suggested above because Tolkien said it happened. The only grist to the purist mill then would be if the invented scenes Tolkien hinted at were out of character or not in keeping with Tolkien's writings (eg: like Gollum framing Sam).

WETA battles: Prelude: Thorin Oakenshield with Thrain v Azog would do for starters. Also smaller conflicts with Gandalf/Thorin v Great Goblin Chieftain, Wargs and Goblins v Gandalf in tree; Beorn v Goblins and Wargs; quite enough to keep a cinema audience going.

 

[Snaga]

Ooh yes! And they could re-use the Balrog, as Dain Ironfoot kills Azog on the steps of Moria and decides not to go any further!

Anyways... I feel certain that since CT is not in the way, between New Line and UA they will eventually come to the conclusion that there is enough profit for both of them in this, and will strike a deal. Bring it on!

 

[Barliman Butterbur]

As (I presume) most of the purists have read the background stuff, there would be no problem with adding what I've suggested above because Tolkien said it happened. The only grist to the purist mill then would be if the invented scenes Tolkien hinted at were out of character or not in keeping with Tolkien's writings (eg: like Gollum framing Sam).

WETA battles: Prelude: Thorin Oakenshield with Thrain v Azog would do for starters. Also smaller conflicts with Gandalf/Thorin v Great Goblin Chieftain, Wargs and Goblins v Gandalf in tree; Beorn v Goblins and Wargs; quite enough to keep a cinema audience going.

I'm drooling already!

Lotho

 

[Bucky]

There's a lot more suggested in The Hobbit that could be written into a film. For instance, a plot line could follow Gandalf to the final White Council at Rivendell, then to the cleansing of Dol Guldur (some Galadriel/Lothlorien here) which, like in LotR, Gandalf hoped would distract the Necromancer from the little hobbit passing by.

WHY WHY WHY????????

There's NO need to go there.

That's not a part of the plot......

Gandalf goes off, you mention why he goes away, that's it.....

Just like the book.

Why add stuff & complicate the storyline?

 

[Foe-Hammer]

CT stikes me as the epitome of the npw. I imagine him pulling his gandalf hat down over his eyes whenever the mention of these movies infulence in bringing more people to the book reaches him.

 

[Eledhwen]

There's a lot more suggested in The Hobbit that could be written into a film. For instance, a plot line could follow Gandalf to the final White Council at Rivendell, then to the cleansing of Dol Guldur (some Galadriel/Lothlorien here) which, like in LotR, Gandalf hoped would distract the Necromancer from the little hobbit passing by.

WHY WHY WHY????????

The storyline's already there, courtesy of JRRT. It just needs filling in for Dol Guldur and the Orc build up (Thorin's tale is already magnificently told). The alternative - picture it Bucky - a bunch of shorties almost buried in beard running along, having a little adventure, running along again, having another adventure.... The reason it works in the book is because of the excellent dialogue and the magnificence of Tolkien's storytelling. I'm sure the film would be a big hit without the above, because it's The Hobbit. But Tolkien did already write much of what's suggested, and told of Saruman's behaviour at the White Council and the cleansing of Dol Guldur, and that the Eagles had watched the buildup of the Orcs. It's all Tolkien. I'd love to see it put in, so long as it wasn't at the expense of something silly like leaving Beorn or the Arkenstone out of the story.

 

[Bucky]

The reason it works in the book is because of the excellent dialogue and the magnificence of Tolkien's storytelling. I'm sure the film would be a big hit without the above, because it's The Hobbit. But Tolkien did already write much of what's suggested,

Not really.
It's mentioned, but in no great detail & certainly not in the Hobbit nor central to the Hobbit's storyline.
That opens up PJ to writing a whole bunch of stuff himself.

All the audience needs to know is that Gandalf went away & why & that he comes back.....
Anything else really distracts from the central story.

It would be like showing the war in the Pacific in 'Patton' because FDR says he's going to send Patton there to command an army after the war in Europe ends.......

All you need to know is the facts, not the whole story behind them.....

The story in The Hobbit itself could easily make a 3 hour movie IMHO; They might even have to cut out a few things as it is......

 

[Eledhwen]

Anything else really distracts from the central story

The Lord of the Rings is the central story, following on from the rich history of Middle Earth. The Necromancer is Sauron and, as Tolkien said, the Hobbit 'fitted'. I love writing screenplays - it's so much quicker than writing books! Here's a scene I have shared before, that I would like to see included in some form:-

EXT. MOUNTAIN FORTRESS --NIGHT
FLASHBACK.

It is raining heavily. We see a dark, bare mountain surrounded by forest. The mountain has been carved into a great fortress with towers and walls. The large front gates are barred shut. Beside it is a stone built guard house with its own small entrance. Firelight glows from its small windows.

GANDALF (V.O.)
It seemed to me that the Ringwraiths, who some call the Black Riders, were abroad once again; but I had no proof. I decided that I must visit Dol Guldur myself. I went in disguise.

A Figure, hooded and cloaked in black, hides outside the postern guardhouse to Dol Guldur.
Inside, ORCS are laughing, drinking and talking by the light of an open fire. They have no inclination to take their turns patrolling in the driving rain.

The figure crouches in the shadows and waits. Eventually he stands tall and, pulling the hood low over his face, he walks past the door.

A couple of ORCS spot him and leap to attention.

ORCS
Nazgul!

The Orcs mistake him for one of their own – a Black Rider.

Hiding a wry smile, Gandalf walks boldly along the roadway, which is banked up a few feet above the mud and slime.

He waits until he is alone then he steps down into the shadows unseen.

Hiding near the road, he listens to the conversations of passing Orcs. Two are passing by, dragging a frightened, unrecognisable being whose legs refuse to work.

ORC #1
Stop snivelling! We’re in the mood for some fun; and I’ll bet you’re tasty too, if it comes to it.

ORC #2
You can’t do anything to it unless Sauron says so. We’ll both be for it if you…..

ORC #1
And you’ll be for it too if you don’t shut up! You know better than to speak the boss’s name aloud – it’s a secret.

ORC #2
(Spits) What difference does it make? Everyone here knows who he is.

ORC #1
The difference is whether you get run through by a Nazgul’s sword or fed to the spiders, that’s what difference it makes, now shut up or I’ll run you through myself!

The Orcs chatter on to one another, dragging their prisoner along. Gandalf follows them in the shadows just off the roadway to the rocky mountain in which are delved the pits of Dol Guldur.

INT. THE PITS OF DOL GULDUR

Gandalf finds a side entrance to the pits and slips unnoticed into the mountainside. A long passageway has been carved out and is lit at intervals by slow-burning torches, which give the passageway a red glow.

Side tunnels appear at intervals. Gandalf explores one. It contains several openings into low cells.

The prisoners in the first two cells appear to be dead. Gandalf peers into the third and sees the figure stir.

Gandalf takes a torch and lowers himself into the pit.

In the mud at the bottom, in chains, lies a DWARF. His matted beard and sallow face bear witness to the great torment he has suffered.

The Dwarf raises an arm toward Gandalf and groans. There is urgency in his voice.

Gandalf lowers himself to the Dwarf’s side. He sets the torch aside and cradles the Dwarf’s head and shoulders in his arms, then whispers to him.

GANDALF
Speak, Master Dwarf! How came you to this doom?

DWARF
My Ring! One of the Seven! He’s taken it. It was the last! The last!

GANDALF
Peace, my friend! Who knows that you are here? Would you have me send messages?

DWARF
No friend knows I have been taken. The Ring has been taken. The last of the Seven. Taken. Gone.
MORE
DWARF
(beat)
Messages? Yes. One message. I would have you take one message for me – for my son.

The Dwarf struggles to sit up. He opens his waistcoat and reaches for a hidden pocket. Out of it he lifts a piece of parchment and a key. Almost dropping them, he hands them to Gandalf.

The effort exhausts him. Gandalf helps him with his waistcoat and covers him with a muddy cloak that had been lying on the floor.

Again Gandalf cradles the Dwarf in his arms. The Dwarf gasps and gurgles as he struggles to speak.

DWARF
When you see my son, give him these things.

GANDALF
His name, master! Tell me the name of your son and where I might find him.

The Dwarf struggles to answer. His mouth opens and shuts. In desperation he tries to form the name of his son. His eyes roll upwards and the Dwarf is no more.

Gandalf lowers him gently to the ground. He arranges the Dwarf’s body with what respect he can and covers him with the cloak. He covers his own head once more with the black hood and turns to leave.

GANDALF
Sauron!

PRESENT.

 

[Bucky]

The Lord of the Rings is the central story,

Not when you are making a movie called The Hobbit

You are making a movie that is a story that begins & ends in the theatre that night & doesn't need to be 'artificially' tied into a Trilogy that was released 5 years earlier.

It's being made for the general public, not for a few Tolkien fanatics........
The majority of whom would HATE everything PJ altered & made up anyway.

 

[Eledhwen]

The Lord of the Rings is the central story, You are making a movie that is a story that begins & ends in the theatre that night & doesn't need to be 'artificially' tied into a Trilogy that was released 5 years earlier.

It's being made for the general public, not for a few Tolkien fanatics........
The majority of whom would HATE everything PJ altered & made up anyway.

Not when you are making a movie called The Hobbit Tolkien said in his letter to Milton Waldman:

I did not know as I began it that it belonged. But it proved to be the discovery of the completion of the whole, its mode of descent to earth, and merging into 'history'.

and in letters to CA Furth of Allen and Unwin

...my mind on the 'story' side is really preoccupied with the 'pure' fairy stories or mythologies of the silmarillion, into which even Mr Baggins got dragged against my original will, ..... and on the adult style of the sequel The readers young and old who clamoured for 'more about the Necromancer' are to blame....

The two stories, together with the entire mythology, are inextricably entwined.

 

[Bucky]

Of course the stories are entwined.......

Why don't we just make the audience study the family trees of the Tooks, Brandybucks, Baggins, Boffins, Bracegirdles & Proudfoots when they enter they theatre while we're at it?

Instead of 'movie trivia' on the screen, we can show 'Hobbit Family Trees' & 'Appendix A Rulers Of Gondor, Arnor, Arthedian & Cheiftains of the Dunedain of the North', plus 'Kings of Rohan', 'House Of Durin'......



Don't you get it?
What JRR Tolkien thought, in all due respect - and I've read the books 25 times - does not matter to Joe Average Moviegoer who wants to be entertained for 2.5-3 hours & couldn't care less that Glamdring

A. Belonged to the King Of Gondolin, let alone that
B. Turgon was that King of Gondolin and
C. Gondolin was the hidden city in the first Age that was the last Kingdom to fall to Morgoth, who was
D. The first Dark Lord, "of whom Sauron of Mordor was merely a servant", who's true name was Melkor, who was
E. One of the Valar, who were the......

See what I mean?


Ideas you are suggesting
are simply congesting
Public's attention span MUST be heeded
Their concentration losing
in all the confusing
subplots not needed
When planning a project
You must remember this:
K.I.S.S.

(Keep It Simple, Stupid)

BTW, 'Stupid' isn't YOU, it's a saying used in the anacronisym 'kiss' to make a point when people try to over complicate plans, so please don't take it as a personal attack, I'm just trying to write some poetry as bad as Tolkien's.