Was Bilbo right to offer the Arkenstone of Thrain to Bard?

[Arvedui]

As Thorin carefully explained, Mr. Baggins was still officially their expert burglar and investigator. If he liked to risk a light, that was his affair. They would wait in the tunnel for his report. So they sat near the door and watched.
They saw the little dark shape of the hobbit start across the floor holding his tiny light aloft. Every now and again, while he was still near enough, they caught a glint and a tinkle as he stumbled on some golden thing. The light grew smaller as he wandered away into the vast hall; then it began to rise dancing into the air. Bilbo was climbing the great mound of treasure. Soon he stood upon the top, and still went on. Then they saw him halt and stoop for a moment; but they did not know the reason. It was the Arkenstone,

I guess the answer to your question is no. Bilbo was not wearing the Ring when he found the Arkenstone. The dwarves could clearly see him.
But that does not take away the influence the Ring might already have on him from previously wearing it.

it's nice to be appreciated!

You're most welcome!

 

[Celebthôl]

2 points. . .

1) That was a letter, NOT a contract therefore it was only a swift guidline on the quest as im sure the Dwarves were running out of time when it was written and didnt have time to read it over and make it perfect.

2) I think this Bilbo character is a bit greedy 1st the one ring, then the Arkenstone arguably the greatest gem left on ME, tut tut.

 

[Arvedui]

Originally posted by Celebthôl
2 points. . .

1) That was a letter, NOT a contract therefore it was only a swift guidline on the quest as im sure the Dwarves were running out of time when it was written and didnt have time to read it over and make it perfect.

2) I think this Bilbo character is a bit greedy 1st the one ring, then the Arkenstone arguably the greatest gem left on ME, tut tut.

LOL!
Grasping for straws, are we?

 

[Celebthôl]

Originally posted by Arvedui
LOL!
Grasping for straws, are we?

Is it that obvious?

 

[Red Istar]

Gandalf himself told Bilbo he had done well, methinks. *scrambles to find the quote*

 

[Idril]

Originally posted by Celebthôl

1) That was a letter, NOT a contract therefore it was only a swift guidline on the quest as im sure the Dwarves were running out of time when it was written and didnt have time to read it over and make it perfect.

The letter would constitute a legally binding contract as we have an offer for work and consideration (the payment) and Bilbo turned up - therefore an acceptance of the terms. It matters not that it was done in haste.

I think Bilbo did the right thing in offering the stone to Bard and I feel his deed showed that there was infact no greed on his part (about taking and keeping the stone in the first place), only the desire to end the impasse.

 

[Eriol]

Was not the Ring at that time just an ordinary magic ring in Tolkien's mind, and not the Superly Wicked One Ring To Rule Them All?

Tolkien changed the Hobbit later to account for the change in the Ring's character... but that action of Bilbo's (keeping the Arkenstone to himself) could not be changed, right? Has anyone here read the 1st Edition of The Hobbit?

What I'm trying to say here is that we can't ascribe Bilbo's actions to the effects of the Ring; unless Tolkien was doing it unconsciously .

And I think Bilbo was right -- and very much so.

 

[Snaga]

Aragil: the letter said cash. Tell me in what realm gems such as the Arkenstone would be considered 'cash'?

In any case, although it 'appeared' that Thorin might pay for the Arkenstone, they didn't ever receive any. At the same time as he was saying that he would pay, his thoughts were turning to other ideas:

And already, so strong was the bewilderment of the treasure upon him that already he was considering whether by the help of Dain he might not recapture the Arkenstone and withhold the share of the reward.

To my mind, Bilbo inflamed the anger felt by Thorin, rather than helping it. The Lakemen and especially the Elves had no right to come and try to threaten Thorin for the treasure. Bilbo's action just added to his sense of injustice.

 

[Dragon]

I believe that bilbo giving the arkenstone to bard was
right intentionally ~~in that his intentions were for the best, he was hoping to help everyone

wrong tactically ~~I'm almost positive that was the worst possible way to go about it and yet still get positive results, I can think of a number of other ways to fix the problem that was at hand

and wrong morally ~~while the question is not whether it was right for him to take the arkenstone in the first place, but whether it was right for him to give it to bard, I believe that the morals of him endowing bard with the arkenstone are crudely based on him taking it in the first place. I believe it was wrong for him to take it, and that it was not his, therefore, he didn't have the right to give it away

thol argues that nothing good came of bilbos actions, I disagree, some good things did come, it was simply not apparent that they were in subsequence to bilbos decisions. my point however, is that people often do things in vain. things do not always work as planned, bc of all the factors involved. As far as bilbo could see, it would work perfectly, and his perceptions were all he could base his behavior on. whether good or bad things became of it does not tell us anything, because ppl cannot adjust the future to their liking, they can only predict with so much accuracy before the must use chance, and chance is where the problem lies. there was only a chance that bilbos plan would work correctly.

hope ppl actually understand this....

 

[Kelonus]

I believe it was somewhat wwrong for Bilbo to give the stone to Bard, because it wasn't his. It belonged to Thorin. Bilbo was going to keep it for himself. How would you like it if someone found something of yours that you worked so hard to find and kept it? I do believe Bilbo gave the stone to Bard for a reason though.

 

[Eledhwen]

Originally posted by Celebthôl
That was a letter, NOT a contract therefore it was only a swift guidline on the quest as im sure the Dwarves were running out of time when it was written and didnt have time to read it over and make it perfect.

Definition of a Contract in English Law: An OFFER (the job of burgling the dragon's lair) which is ACCEPTED (Bilbo ran to the Green Dragon without even a pocket handkerchief) becomes a CONTRACT (Thorin's letter) when it promises a CONSIDERATION (one fourteenth share of the treasure). The contract is completed when the goods and/or services are exchanged for the consideration.

Thorin's letter was a contract, no matter how hurriedly made or ill considered. His spoken amendment later, excluding the Arkenstone from the contract, was not a valid amendment. Therefore Bilbo could do what he liked with the Arkenstone.

 

[Kelonus]

I understand that, but what I meant by I felt it was somewhat wrong, was Bilbo knew how badly Thorin wanted the stone. That was mostly what he wanted. Just the fact of not being considerate I meant.

 

[Eledhwen]

On that logic, Frodo should have given the One Ring back to Sauron. Sometimes the greater good is served in another way. If Bilbo had given the Arkenstone to Thorin, received his 14th share in gold, given it to Bard and the Elves who then toddled off back home, the Orc attack would have wiped the dwarves out, swiftly followed by the lakemen, then possibly Thranduil too.

 

[omnipotent_elf]

To my mind, Bilbo inflamed the anger felt by Thorin, rather than helping it. The Lakemen and especially the Elves had no right to come and try to threaten Thorin for the treasure. Bilbo's action just added to his sense of injustice.

snaga is right. Bilbo added to the mistrust which throin had with the lakemen and elves. Anyways, the elves inparticular had locked Thorin away. The matter should have been dealt with...diferently

On that logic, Frodo should have given the One Ring back to Sauron

I hate that idea. I encountered it many times in debating. Different situations require a different logic. Different circumstances influence what happens.

anyways, this is purely of the top of my head, but did bilbo ever know it was the one ring?

 

[Eledhwen]

Originally posted by Omnipotent_elf
I hate that idea. I encountered it many times in debating. Different situations require a different logic. Different circumstances influence what happens.

anyways, this is purely of the top of my head, but did bilbo ever know it was the one ring?

The logic matches. Kelonus argued that the stone should have been given back to Thorin because he wanted it so badly and it was his, which would have been Frodo's reason for giving the Ring back to Sauron.

And no, Bilbo didn't know it was the One Ring at that time; but I was talking about the Arkenstone, not the Ring.

 

[Kelonus]

Good thing Sauron didn't get the ring though.

 

[Eledhwen]

If it happened today, he'd sue and get it back.

 

[omnipotent_elf]

was the Arkenstone of thrain a threat to all races of ME. NO. Therefore, they are unrelated matters.

If it happened today, he'd sue and get it back.

good reason for bilbo not to steal it from thorin

 

[Grima]

No wonder Gandalf chose Bilbo as the burglar. He probably saw in the depths of the hobbit subconscious a tendency to cunning deeds😉....

You can argue right or wrong for a long time, but do not forget that Bilbo for Thorin is not only a friend, but also an employee, not a dwarf subordinate and not a relative. Bilbo is a grown-up hobbit, although he has never faced such circumstances before. He cannot do "nothing", he must do something. And who says Bilbo did well? He did the best he could.
Bilbo with a clumsy attempt to bring health and happiness to Thorin at his own discretion.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Good necropost, Grima -- I see you've been digging around in the TTF catacombs! 😄

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