Was 🧙Gandalf wise in letting Frodo bear the Ring?

Thorondor_ said:

Why not take the ring to Aman? Couldn't the Valar use it, without being affected by it? Or just destroy it?

Maybe it was a test for Middle-Earth to resist such a temptation, to overcome it and to destroy it.

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The glib response: I imagine the Valar's taking or destroying the Ring would have a similar effect upon the story to Gwaihir's scooping up the Ring in his talons on the doorstep and depositing it soon after in the Cracks of Doom.

The non-glib response: You raise an interesting point, which someone more learned in matters Valinorean would be better equipped to address. I'm not sure about the idea that the Ring was a 'test' for Middle-earth. Clearly the Valar took the threat of it--or Sauron himself--seriously enough to send the Istari to Middle-earth. But for reasons of which I am not myself aware (but hopefully someone on TTF might be), the Valar would never accept the Ring itself in Valinor. It "belongs to Middle-earth," but that is not a complete answer. Perhaps the Ring in Valinor, even if it would have no effect upon the Valar themselves, might have an evil influence on others there: but-for-the-grace-of-Eru, there are plenty of would-be Dark Lords among the Maia and Quendi of the West.

They did not intervene because it was not their problem-they had sent their stewards, but in the end it was up to the people of Middle-Earth to deal with it.

These questions are often fascinating to discuss, but of course they are always within the context of the story. A very glib reply might be that the story works well with Frodo carrying the One Ring to Mordor!

I suppose the question really is 'who else was there'? Bilbo was perhaps too old and showed signs of giving in to the One Ring's machinations; Gandalf refuses the One Ring knowing full well its power to corrupt; that really just leaves a Hobbit.

Frodo was an unassuming sort; devoid of any pretensions to great power or high office and content with his own little corner of the world. The One Ring's power doesn't have much to offer someone like that.

Frodo was an unassuming sort; devoid of any pretensions to great power or high office and content with his own little corner of the world. The One Ring's power doesn't have much to offer someone like that.

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In my opinion, Sam was even more humble than Frodo, both in expectations and in origin, and he still became enslaved by the visions of the ring (at some point). Like Gandalf said in the Hobbit, Bilbo had some hidden gifts, and these were more important than the traits you mentioned. In my opinion, it is those hidden gifts that Frodo inherits that make him the perfect choice, Frodo is the secret weapon (of Eru )

Thorondor_ said:

In my opinion, Sam was even more humble than Frodo, both in expectations and in origin, and he still became enslaved by the visions of the ring (at some point). Like Gandalf said in the Hobbit, Bilbo had some hidden gifts, and these were more important than the traits you mentioned. In my opinion, it is those hidden gifts that Frodo inherits that make him the perfect choice, Frodo is the secret weapon (of Eru )

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Quite an interesting point old boy and I would agree to a certain extent, namely that I imagine it may be a combination of these factors.

Frodo did eventually succumb to the One Ring of course, but then there is also Sam there to save him. I rather wonder whether we should consider Frodo as the sole ring bearer, not in a physical sense of course. I think that it can be argued rather well that Frodo wouldn't have it made it without Sam, so I wonder if we shouldn't actually consider the two of them together in this matter.

Another point for consideration would be what those hidden qualities were?

Tolkien said:

No one answered. The noon-bell rang. Still no one spoke. Frodo glanced at all the faces, but they were not turned to him. All the Council sat with downcast eyes, as if in deep thought. A great dread fell on him, as if he was awaiting the pronouncement of some doom that he had long foreseen and vainly hoped might after all never be spoken. An overwhelming longing to rest and remain at peace by Bilbo's side in Rivendell filled all his heart. At last with an effort he spoke, and wondered to hear his own words, as if some other will was using his small voice. 'I will take the Ring,' he said, 'though I do not know the way.'

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Elendil3119 said:

Obviously here, Frodo was guided by some other power than his own: fate, what Eru ordained.

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Excuse me but it's not at all obvious to me. When I first read the passage — and when I still read it — I come to the conclusion that the reality of the situation is closing in on Frodo (rather than fate or specific ordination) and he sees more and more that since the ring has been given to him, logically, it is his mission to see to its destruction. He finally succumbs to the pressure of the moment and takes on the quest. Of course it can be argued that since Eru exists, everything is ultimately ordained by him, but this just doesn't do it for me. That would take away individual choice and free will.

Barley

Barliman Butterbur said:

Of course it can be argued that since Eru exists, everything is ultimately ordained by him, but this just doesn't do it for me. That would take away individual choice and free will.

Barley

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I suppose one could make the argument that it is Eru's individual choice and free will, which are being exercised.

I would agree with that. Religion says that at all times God's light is reflected in us, but it is also "distorted" by our own nature/structure/psychology/memory - what we would call our spirit, our identity - with its our free will. In the end, our "identity" is actually a burden that separates us from Him.

Thorondor_ said:

I would agree with that. Religion says that at all times God's light is reflected in us, but it is also "distorted" by our own nature/structure/psychology/memory - what we would call our spirit, our identity - with its our free will. In the end, our "identity" is actually a burden that separates us from Him.

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For me however, what religion says is really what man says and attributes to God.

Barley

First of all, religion is a revealed aspect, not something a human can devise by mere speculation. Second, as you posted in the "Gandalf and religion" thread, to you, religion is equivalent to self-induced illusion. It is so - only when devised by humans, to suit earthly purposes. Are we getting off the topic here?

Remember that Gandalf said that Gollum might have a part to play before the end, maybe Gandalf knew that Gollum would destroy the ring. Or Gollum was under his orders to destroy the ring, or Gandalf just somehow knew; But how could that be.

I would guess he saw a special connection between Gollum and the ring the same way he saw it between Bilbo (and Frodo for that matter) and the Ring. I REALLY wonder how he came to meet Bilbo in the very first place... what led him ...

Gandalf had not planned falling in Moria, so at the council he must have felt that maybe he could have helped Frodo throw it in Mt Doom. Gandalf had already helped relieve one hobbit of the ring who had had it for 60 years, so one who had it for a few years wouldn't be to difficult, would it?