"...we can't live long on the heights"

[Eljorahir]

Does anyone else find this passage rather difficult to interpret? (I hope it’s not just me.)

In the Houses of Healing Aragorn humorously declines Merry’s request to find him some pipeweed, and takes his leave…

‘May the Shire live for ever unwithered!’ And kissing Merry he went out, and Gandalf went with him.

Pippin remained behind. ‘Was there ever anyone like him?’ he said. ‘Except Gandalf, of course. I think they must be related. My dear ass, your pack is lying by your bed, and you had it on your back when I met you. He saw it all the time, of course. And anyway I have some stuff of my own. Come on now! Longbottom Leaf it is. Fill up while I run and see about some food. And then let’s be easy for a bit. Dear me! We Tooks and Brandybucks, we can’t live long on the heights.’

‘No,’ said Merry. ‘I can’t. Not yet, at any rate. But at least, Pippin, we can now see them, and honour them. It is best to love first what you are fitted to love, I suppose: you must start somewhere and have some roots, and the soil of the Shire is deep. Still there are things deeper and higher; and not a gaffer could tend his garden in what he calls peace but for them, whether he knows about them or not. I am glad that I know about them, a little. But I don’t know why I am talking like this. Where is that leaf? And get my pipe out of my pack, if it isn’t broken.’

Here are a few of the questions that pop into my mind every time I read this section:

What does Pippin mean when he says ‘…we can’t live long on the heights.’?

In Merry’s response, is he applying a different meaning for ‘the heights’ than Pippin intended in his use of the term?

Merry essentially is saying: “I can’t live on the heights now, but I might be able to later.” He’s only just arrived in Minas Tirith. Is he already hinting that he might want to retire here? Or, is he talking about something else entirely: a metaphorical meaning for “the heights”?

Feel free to post any thoughts you may have regarding this passage.

 

[Starbrow]

I always thought that Pippin was referring to socializing with very powerful nobility. Merry and Pippin are members of important families in the Shire, but it is not anything like what the halls of power in Minas Tirith are like. In the Shire, they are big fish in a little pond. Now they know what the big fish in a big pond are like, but they aren't really comfortable there.

 

[Goldilocks Gamgee]

The conversation that Eljorahir cites takes place right after Merry slew the Witch-King of Angmar, and Pippin slew a troll, both deeds of tremendous value and worthy of admiration. High heights indeed, but extremely unsustainable, considering how Merry's in the hospital wing, so it is only logical for them to not be able to live long on them.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that at the beginning of the Fellowship of the Ring, Pippin (and maybe Merry too?) hadn't even reached full adulthood and was but another adolescent hobbit roaming the Shire, so these deeds truly are amazing heights!

 

[Eldacar]

Merry and Pippin are members of important families in the Shire

I would interpret this passage in a similar way. But now that I think of it, it seems weird, that when both their families are rather important folks in the Shire, that they don't say something along the lines of "us hobbits can't live long on the heights" but instead invoke their family name as if other families of the Shire could. But that is probably over-interpretation.

 

[Olorgando]

The conversation that Eljorahir cites takes place right after Merry slew the Witch-King of Angmar, and Pippin slew a troll,

No, Pippin's slaying of the troll comes later, before the Black Gate, with Pippin the only Hobbit present there.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that at the beginning of the Fellowship of the Ring, Pippin (and maybe Merry too?) hadn't even reached full adulthood and was but another adolescent hobbit roaming the Shire, so these deeds truly are amazing heights!

Yes, Pippin at the time was 29, in what the Hobbits called the "tweens". But Merry was 37 and thus four years past Hobbit coming-of-age.

I would interpret this passage in a similar way. But now that I think of it, it seems weird, that when both their families are rather important folks in the Shire, that they don't say something along the lines of "us hobbits can't live long on the heights" but instead invoke their family name as if other families of the Shire could. But that is probably over-interpretation.

Very definitely over-interpretation, in my opinion. I'm sure what Pippin was implicitly saying was "Not even we Tooks and Brandybucks, we can’t live long on the heights." Both would have been aware of the exceptional standing of their families (if not of all members) in the Shire, so that the "not even" was unnecessary.

 

[Deimos]

@Starbrow nails it, dead on, and sends it home.
Pippin/Tolkien is speaking metaphorically. The key phrase (that is, the key to understanding the metaphor) is Merry saying: It is best to love first what you are fitted to love, I suppose: you must start somewhere and have some roots.
This passage (there are others) exemplifies why LOTR is literature and not merely a [fantasy] fiction novel.

(And FWIW I thought what Pippin first said was one of the funniest things in all three books: "Was there ever anyone like him?’ he said. ‘Except Gandalf, of course. I think they must be related." It is a most characteristic, "Pippin-ish" comment. I guffawed the first time I read it; every time since it still elicits a broad smile if not a short laugh.)

 

[Eljorahir]

I certainly agree that Merry is interpreting "the heights" metaphorically.

However, I'm still pondering the possibility that Pippin's intention was much more light-hearted and literal. He's been trying to lighten the mood to help cheer up his friend ever since he awakened. The heights could simply be the elevation of the Houses of Healing (I think it's somewhere in the vicinity of 800-900 feet above the Pelennor, mind-numbingly high by Hobbit housing standards.)

"...we can't live long on the heights" reminds me of:

Sam stared up at the inn with its three storeys and many windows, and felt his heart sink..."We surely aren't going to stay here for the night, are we, sir?"

 

[Deimos]

@Eljorahir ... Pax....let us agree to disagree on this.
I say this because in your example using Sam, there is no nobility, no aristocratic persons, present...(and they haven't met Strider yet)
Dealing with people of high birth can be taxing, as Pippin found out in his meetings with Denethor.
Which is why he said "Fill up while I run and see about some food. And then let’s be easy for a bit."; meaning, 'we can let our hair down for a while'

Also...when Pip says "We Tooks and Brandybucks can't live on the heights for long", Merry responds ‘No,’.... ‘I can’t. Not yet, at any rate. But at least, Pippin, we can now see them, and honour them"
Who is the "them " Merry is referring to in his answer? The "heights"? "We can now see and honour the heights?" That makes no sense.
The antecedent is Aragorn in the sentence "was there ever anyone like him [Aragorn]?" And then he adds "except Gandalf...."
Aragorn and Gandalf are the "them" that Merry says they can "see and honour."

The other thing to consider about "the heights" is that for weeks they Fellowship was walking along the skirts of the Misty Mouintains which were several thousand feet high. By comparison the houses of Healing (level 6) were less than 700 feet high ( the Citadel at level 7 was 700 feet high)
For all the reasons I've stated I think it's way too much of stretch to say that Merry and Pippin were referring to "the heights" of Minas Tirith.

 

[Eljorahir]

(And FWIW I thought what Pippin first said was one of the funniest things in all three books: "Was there ever anyone like him?’ he said. ‘Except Gandalf, of course. I think they must be related." It is a most characteristic, "Pippin-ish" comment. I guffawed the first time I read it; every time since it still elicits a broad smile if not a short laugh.)

I never thought much before about the "I think they must be related" line. Now, I think I see what you're talking about. Aragorn's surly response to Merry might be his most Gandalf-like line in the whole story.

'Master Meriadoc' [uh oh, you know you're in trouble when they call you by your formal name.] 'if you think that I have passed through the mountains and the realm of Gondor with fire and sword to bring herbs to a careless soldier who throws away his gear, you are mistaken...'

Do not meddle in the affairs of the heirs of Isildur for they are subtle and quick to anger!

 

[Deimos]

@Eljorahir ...'Zactly....😉

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

The hobbits are intended by Tolkien to be people like us; in terms of Frye's fictional modes, they are characters of the low mimetic mode, as opposed to the high mimetic, associated with leadership, especially royalty and kingship, or the romantic mode, where the hero, though a human being, is capable of marvelous actions beyond "normal" human abilities. One of the themes running through the book is the contrasts and movement among the different modes.

These modes are not necessarily an indication of hierarchical value, as a low mimetic character can act as heroically as one from any mode, but there is a certain verticality involved; in nearly every scene, the hobbits tend to bring the tone down to "everyday level". This can be seen, for instance, in the Isengard chapters:

'So that is the King of Rohan!' said Pippin in an undertone. 'A fine old fellow. Very polite.'

Or, later:

'Look!' said Pippin. 'Strider the Ranger has come back!'

Examples could be multiplied. But as I said, the story, besides drawing contrasts, also shows characters moving, not just among the modes, but through and into them. This is seen with Aragorn, whose movement from romantic Ranger Strider towards high mimetic kingship is signaled by the return of the palantir and receipt of the royal banner.

The same kind of transformational journey is taken by Merry and Pippin; they begin the quest simply as Frodo's friends and cousins. Although they are, as Starbrow pointed out, members of important Shire families, I don't recall any particular emphasis on this until the "Scouring of the Shire" chapter -- that is, until they, through heroic deeds, have "earned" their places in the Shire version of high mimetic mode. Before that, they don't seem to really be aware of how far they have come, as the line about "heights" shows. Even on the very borders of the Shire, Gandalf has to disabuse them of the idea that they need his help:

'I am with you at present, ' said Gandalf, but soon I shall not be. I am not coming to the Shire. You must settle its affairs yourselves; That is what you have been trained for. Do you not yet understand ? My time is over; it is no longer my task to set things to rights, nor to help folk do so. And as for you, my dear friends, you will need no help. You are grown up now.'

In fact, they could, in a certain sense, be seen as just as much Hidden Monarchs as Aragorn is. At any rate, as their subsequent careers show, they have earned their ability to "live on the heights".

One further note: I wouldn't completely rule out @Eljorahir's suggestion about the significance of "heights"; for one thing, literal height imagery appears in every mode -- in the romantic, towers and mountaintops feature in scenes of epiphany; in high mimetic, there is often a sense of "ascending" to the royal presence.

Aside from this, I wouldn't put it past Tolkien to have a double meaning in mind, as he must have when Gandalf, in the exchange I cited above says "You have grown up now. Grown indeed very high'. I can't help feeling Gandalf-- or the author -- is making a little joke about the actual "growth" of Merry and Pippin, which is remarked by several Shire-folk, as when Fredegar Bolger is released from the Lockholes: 'Who's this young giant with the loud voice? Not little Pippin! What's your size in hats now?'

 

[Eljorahir]

I wouldn't put it past Tolkien to have a double meaning in mind,

Now I'm reminded of the double meaning I suspected at the end of the story, again a matter of elevation...

'And the ship went into the High Sea and passed on into the West...'

Every ship passing beyond territorial waters is commonly said to be travelling on the high seas. However, if you happen to be sailing into the heavenly realm maybe capital letters are warranted as in: High Sea.

Frodo truly ended the story living on the heights in more ways than one.

 

[Elthir]

👍 SES

As for heights, some can nap on them,
surely.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

👍 SES

I assume I can take that as the cat equivalent of a like?

As for heights, some can nap on them,
surely.

Depends on the perch, I imagine.

 

[Erestor Arcamen]

 

[Eljorahir]

Two years later, and another aspect occurs to me...

'...Master Meriadoc was then old (102)...he and Thain Peregrin went to Gondor and passed what short years were left to them in that realm, until they died and were laid in Rath Dinen among the great of Gondor.'

So, they eventually returned to live 'on the heights' but did not live long.

Thus did the Prophesy of Peregrin Took, which he had uttered all those years ago, come to pass:
'We Tooks and Brandybucks, we can’t live long on the heights.’

 

[Eljorahir]

Adding another smidgen of a thought on the subject...

During my last read-through I noted Pippin's earlier thoughts of discomfort living in Minas Tirith. "Stifled even in the lofty citadel" isn't exactly the same idea but still of a kind with "we can't live long on the heights": both matters of hobbitish discomfort, IMO.

The subject quote already discussed in the thread:

'Fill up while I run and see about some food. And then let’s be easy for a bit. Dear me! We Tooks and Brandybucks, we can’t live long on the heights.’

Compare it to Pippin's earlier thoughts during the Siege:

"About the eleventh hour, released at last for a while from service, Pippin came out and went in search of food and drink...In the messes he met Beregond again...Together they strolled out to the walls; for Pippin felt imprisoned indoors, and stifled even in the lofty citadel..."